Playing 4/4 to 6/8 question

[chris perra]

Here's a few ways to look at it... From 8th's to the other ways.. You'll notice that they don't have the same number of bars... But do have the same number of notes and quarter notes..It all will depend on how you want to look at it.. Crap... I screwed up the quarter notes on the hihat foot on the 1/4note triplets..

[Josiah]

If you keep the original 8th note tempo of the 4/4 and just start accenting every 3rd 8th note, effectively marking out 6/8, the tempo will have the illusion of slowing down by 33%.

If you keep the original quarter note tempo, then you must change the 8th notes to 8th note triplets. It might be easier to think of it as 4/4 changing to 12/8 with the quarter note remaining the same.

It's just a question which pulse you want to remain the same, the quarter note or the 8th note. Which would be dictated by the music around it.

[john lamb]

Because you are taking

Why is that?

Because you are taking what is essentially 2 measures and making them one. 4/4 is really two bars of two. 6/8 is one bar of 2. That is a 2/1 ratio, and that is what the pulse must do.
Looking at what Chris Perra put up, on the 1st line '1,2,3,4' is one bar of two and '5,6,7,8' is the other bar of two. Se the bass/snare relationship there? The quarter note pulse (in western music, in 2) is always bass-snare (although often not played that way, that is always the underlying referenced rhythm.) Going to 6/8, that relationship changes into one bass - snare unit, subdivided into triplets. In his 6/8, the beaming of the hihat really should be labeled as triplets although it is standard to omit the triplet marking, but still it is really there.

[DeeP_FRieD]

Look at it in terms of eighth note relation.

If you think of a bar of 4/4 as a bar of 8/8, then the 6/8 relationship is pretty easy to see. (1 eighth = 1 eighth)

Now if you want the quaternote of the 4/4 bar to stay the same as the dotted quaternote of the 6/8( 2 eighths = 3 eighths), then you would play the eight notes of the 6/8 as if they were (eighth note) triplets.

Latin music likes to dance around this void between duple subdivisions and triple subdivisions.

[Jim Richman]

It really depends on what the song sounds like, or what you hear in your head. You can keep a contant tempo, or you can modulate the tempo from a Quarter=Dotted Quarter, or a Half Note=Dotted Quarter.

[Spagnuolo]

i think what i was trying to do is play 2 bars of 6/8 over the orignal 4/4 then go back to 4/4

in this case... i am assuming, the two bars of 6/8 would essentially run at the speed of 12 8th note triplets in 4/4 time no? then i could go back into a rock beat at the speed of the original 8th notes in 4/4

does this make sense?

[Spagnuolo]

heres another question... seeing that the 8th notes in 4/4 do not run at the same speed when switching to 6/8.... what the hell would 4/4 to 5/8 sound l;ike???????????

[Lucas Ives]

You're talking about a couple of different things here; the short answer is it depends on what you're modulating.

If you want to keep the duration of an 8th note the same between the two, it might help to look at 4/4 as 8/8 .. then going to 5/8 just means the last three 8ths get dropped from the bar. As for what it sounds like, that's totally dependent on the phrasing and pattern played.

Making the *bar* of 5/8 have the same duration as the entire bar of 4/4 is a different thing entirely and would involve playing a quintuplet grouping. See the guy in your avatar for more info.

[Josiah]

i think what i was trying to do is play 2 bars of 6/8 over the orignal 4/4 then go back to 4/4

in this case... i am assuming, the two bars of 6/8 would essentially run at the speed of 12 8th note triplets in 4/4 time no? then i could go back into a rock beat at the speed of the original 8th notes in 4/4

does this make sense?

Again, If you keep the original 8th note tempo of the 4/4 and just start accenting every 3rd 8th note, effectively marking out 6/8, the tempo will have the illusion of slowing down by 33%.

If you keep the original quarter note tempo, then you must change the 8th notes to 8th note triplets. It might be easier to think of it as 4/4 changing to 12/8 with the quarter note remaining the same.

It's just a question which pulse you want to remain the same, the quarter note or the 8th note. Which would be dictated by the music around it.

You (and others) seem to be seriously over complicating the issue.


Going from 4/4 to 5/8 is entirely dependent on the feel of the music and how's it's phrased. My band has a tune that goes from 5/8 to 4/4, it works because it's based on the 8th note, and the guitar riffs.

Here is the groove, 3 bars of 5/8 followed by 1 bar of 4/4 - http://josiahmicheletti.com/josiah/wing ... groove.mp3

[john lamb]

i think what i was trying to do is play 2 bars of 6/8 over the orignal 4/4 then go back to 4/4

Then that would be called '12/8' and not '6/8' ANd in that case the quarter note pulse is axactly the same, but the 8th notes become 8th note triplets.

Going from 4/4 to 5/8 is entirely dependent on the feel of the music and how's it's phrased.

Translation: "5/8 in and of itself means a lot of things." It is sort of like asking for the definition of 'fruit'. It has a set of specific meanings, but you don't know which one out of context. It could be quintuplets, it could refer to a secondary pulse, it could be a measure of two then a measure of three. Time signatures mostly don't really give you enough information to know what they mean. You have to look at the larger piece. Staff notation is to music notation what English is to languages.