Drummers who are far better musicians than players

[Paul Marangoni]

Some intagible variables, I imagine, relating to personality, temperament, work ethic, and versatility/adaptability.

I suppose the combination of chemistry, timing, and effort in a band setting, or at least a setting with other musicians in the room, goes a long way....

This is so obvious that it doesn't need to be posted. That was my point. What good is technical facility on an instrument if you're not a "good musician"? The whole point of this topic is beyond me apparently.

A good drummer = a good musician. They are one and the same.

[Rene]

Well I guess that means you're my friend Renee? I and still feel that way to some extent, just how I deal with that is different now....

I think it was a valid observation than and repeated by wikiman ..... It's very typical that group think (negative side of group ethics) is - if not more? - applicable to forums...

Well back to drumming, I still like this forum though

[Avi_drums]

I think he's really talking about drummer/musicians with a skill set more applicable to 'simpler' mainstream music, and what it takes to be that guy. It's rare someone can kill it in multiple genres. Some good drummers think more 'drumistically' and might not be in tune with the way a pop producer thinks, etc etc. They can be extraordinarily egocentric, insular and kind of snobby in their thinking, which might be okay on the one hand, when they need to shed. But not so good in other ways.

[AllenS]

Thanks for the responses guys...even if they weren't all positive, that's OK, no hard feelings!

[willyz]

Some intagible variables, I imagine, relating to personality, temperament, work ethic, and versatility/adaptability.

I suppose the combination of chemistry, timing, and effort in a band setting, or at least a setting with other musicians in the room, goes a long way....

This is so obvious that it doesn't need to be posted. That was my point. What good is technical facility on an instrument if you're not a "good musician"? The whole point of this topic is beyond me apparently.

A good drummer = a good musician. They are one and the same.

I agree with Paul- there's no need to create any separation. I think when you're younger and starting out you find yourself inspired by the musician aspect, eventually you get involved in the 'drumming' aspect and relate everything to chops, and then once maturity settles in you realize there's no relevance to 'drumming' if you're not thinking about the music first. It's almost as if people don't treat drums like everyone else treats someone that plays an instrument- and a lot of that is within the drumming community.

Also, in regards to this:

I think he's really talking about drummer/musicians with a skill set more applicable to 'simpler' mainstream music, and what it takes to be that guy. It's rare someone can kill it in multiple genres. Some good drummers think more 'drumistically' and might not be in tune with the way a pop producer thinks, etc etc. They can be extraordinarily egocentric, insular and kind of snobby in their thinking, which might be okay on the one hand, when they need to shed. But not so good in other ways.

...I don't know about you guys, but if I turn on a 'pop' music station on the radio, I'm not really hearing much drums at all. Drums & groove in mainstream pop music (i.e.: EDM, hip-hop, etc- with a few exceptions here and there of course), are (sadly) almost a thing of the past. It's not really relevant anymore.

[AllenS]

I think he's really talking about drummer/musicians with a skill set more applicable to 'simpler' mainstream music, and what it takes to be that guy. It's rare someone can kill it in multiple genres. Some good drummers think more 'drumistically' and might not be in tune with the way a pop producer thinks, etc etc. They can be extraordinarily egocentric, insular and kind of snobby in their thinking, which might be okay on the one hand, when they need to shed. But not so good in other ways.

Fair point. There are more clinicians than you might think.

Paul and willyz: I think it should be obvious that great drumming and musicality on the drums go together, but I'm not entirely sure it is to everyone. Maybe me being a younger person skews my perspective on this....or maybe I've seen too many people try to quantitatively rank musicians. Regardless, it is important to remember that most people (thankfully) don't think about music that way.

[Avi_drums]

When I think of raw musicality, I think of someone like Porcaro. But musicality is also very subjective. This isn't the Sound City era.

[gretsch-o-rama]

Well I guess that means you're my friend Renee? I and still feel that way to some extent, just how I deal with that is different now....

I think it was a valid observation than and repeated by wikiman ..... It's very typical that group think (negative side of group ethics) is - if not more? - applicable to forums...

Well back to drumming, I still like this forum though

I can still call people assholes though, right?

[Kurtis]

Be interesting to see all of the people involved in this conversation discuss this in person. I'm sure it would take on a different vibe.

[john lamb]

In my experience, there's a difference between physical technique and musical technique. For example - what kinds of things do you do to keep your head in the music while playing? These would be musical techniques. Ringo's theory that each section should have a different snare sound is part of his musical technique.

Granted, there are a lot of crossovers - JR Robinson connects the way he dances behind the drumset directly to his particular feel - but that's picking nits, really. Musical players are trying to make music and have tricks out the wazoo that they pull out to make things shine. Both JR Robinson and Ringo have recipes - clearly understood approaches and intentions and huge bags of musical tricks to get what they want. I always hate it when I play some tacky fill just because I can. It's a mistake in the same way that taking your foot all the way off the pedal is a mistake ... just a different category. (mistake in personality? god that thought is depressing lol)