Berklee advice

[Josiah]

Wow, that sounds horrible. Sorry.

That's why I mentioned, for the money.

For $150 a month now I get my own 24/7 practice space/studio/whatever room. You could pay 3 or 4 high end private teachers. Cover all your rent. Not work any job. And dedicate100% of your time to shedding. For YEARS and still be under the total tuition cost of that school.

[drum6282]

My experience was pretty much the same as LP drums - would I do it all over again and was it worth it? Yes and no. The student loans suck - even with a small scholarship (small when comparing to Berklee's massive tuition/room/board cost) I have a lot of debt for 2 years of Berklee. I left bc the experience wasn't what I'd hoped for and I couldn't justify racking up that much debt - I felt it was too much of a risk - it's a much different school than the days of Vinnie and Steve Smith. The players that go there and get picked up on big gigs within a year really didn't seem to need the education from Berklee anyway - it was merely a spring board for them to a bigger gig - i.e. Esperanza Spalding - she was already amazing before getting there.

I attended a community college right out of high school to get my gen ed courses out of the way. While doing this, I took private lessons in music theory - this helped me test into a higher harmony rating so I could bypass 1 & 2. That saved a lot of money.

Hardest class was ear training. I hated it, but I got the most out of this class. I loved private instruction, but it was only 30 minutes once a week for only one credit. I read they're changing this to a 50 minute class now. Drum lab blew and was only worth a 1/2 credit - much like LP said - lots of hackers there holding the class back - ensemble class - same experience - cancelled a lot - most of the time the players didn't seem to gel - it felt forced. Much better experience meeting people and getting together and jamming - IF you can find a room available.

The new alumni magazine said they've gone to a 15% acceptance rate - that should cut down on the hackers. It was a 70% acceptance rate when I attended. Talk about a bunch of hacks - the piano player in my ensemble was classically trained and didn't know what a pentatonic scale - why and how did she end up in a jazz trio ensemble? Waste of time. I knew most of the tunes the teacher wanted to play anyway. The bass player was a prog rock guy - wanted to turn everything into a prog tune...it was weird. Anyway, you shouldn't run into this with the strict acceptance rate now.

They've also bought a 16 story building for more housing and I think they have a cafe that has showcases and acoustic shows...they're definitely expanding...so there may be more practice/ensemble facilities - you can find out by getting in touch with a current student there.

Take a look at the big picture though. Sure, we all want to do what we love for a living, but what are you willing to sacrifice for this? What do you want to do after Berklee? The career center at Berklee was really no help - except placing you into unpaid internships. Nobody has a clue what's going on in the industry - after working in Nashville for a brief stint, it's apparent the labels don't seem to be adapting either - they're trying to fight a war they won't win.

All in all, good luck with you decision. It's a tough one for sure. Whatever you decide make sure you're learning, having fun and always moving to achieve your goal.

[Robert Bluman]

Bankruptcy doesn't cover student loans. 3 things in the USA you can't escape. Student Loans, Taxes and Death. FYI also at Berklee with Antonio was John Blackwell, Nat Morton, Steve Hass, Swiss Chris, John Roberts, Abe Laboriel Jr, and quite a few other movers and shakers in the drum business. It has to be worth going, if you're willing to make the investment.
What people like Josiah are not grasping is that musical development is about playing with people who are better than you. Not shedding in a practice space. Private lessons don't work that well either when it comes to your ensemble chops. Really in the big leagues, all that matters is if you can play with a band. That's why such a high % of Berklee alumnus are successful performers. Berklee, North Texas, and other promising schools are important because you get to play music everyday, and be put in real life situations with other students on your level and better. If you make mistakes, there are no repercussions, you learn. You get it together. In the real world at a jam session, if you make mistakes, it's over. So to me that type of atmosphere is invaluable. The players I mentioned above are not chop freaks and ridiculously amazing technical drummers. They're great musicians. Go to Berklee or a similar school if you have the chance. I wish I did.

[Pocketplayer]

The biggest issue I see in younger players who want to go, is the dedication level, not so much the finance issue. If you love to shed and are spending hours a day now at it, awesome! If you find it difficult to find and/or spend even an hour a day practicing, it may not be the right path for you. There is definitely an OCD element to dedicating your life to hitting things.

For $150 a month now I get my own 24/7 practice space/studio/whatever room. You could pay 3 or 4 high end private teachers. Cover all your rent. Not work any job. And dedicate100% of your time to shedding. For YEARS and still be under the total tuition cost of that school.

Nobody has a clue what's going on in the industry - after working in Nashville for a brief stint, it's apparent the labels don't seem to be adapting either - they're trying to fight a war they won't win.

Private lessons don't work that well either when it comes to your ensemble chops. Really in the big leagues, all that matters is if you can play with a band. That's why such a high % of Berklee alumnus are successful performers. Berklee, North Texas, and other promising schools are important because you get to play music everyday, and be put in real life situations with other students on your level and better. If you make mistakes, there are no repercussions, you learn. You get it together. In the real world at a jam session, if you make mistakes, it's over. So to me that type of atmosphere is invaluable. The players I mentioned above are not chop freaks and ridiculously amazing technical drummers. They're great musicians. Go to Berklee or a similar school if you have the chance. I wish I did.

Good point, counter point thing going on here...

The hardest thing about Covey's habit, Begin with the end in mind, is at 22, your "end" in very controlled by age and experience...which ain't that much at 22 right? So, what is a man to do? He must walk by faith, prepare for the future, and dig deep within. Some say IQ is sealed by grade 3...8yo. The main problem with school in general is thinking you have to be master of all...that just ain't reality. Trying to understand your passion, what drives you, what makes you feel alive...that music genre is what you need to pursue and marry. I'm 49 and I still dig the music I did when I was 10yo. I can appreciate the other stuff...but in the end, there is a feel that moves me deeply. If the market moves from this, I can either adapt or do my own thing.

A man must deal with the $ thing as soon as possible because this will anchor his soul as to what he decides in the future. jmho

[DSOP]

Go to Berklee, do your best, and keep a super-detailed diary. Take lots of photos, and video clips of classes, other students, etc. Interview other students and video record those interviews. When you're done with school, write a book or put together a documentary. If it's any good, EVERY future student will want a copy. It may help pay for your loans.

[DeeP_FRieD]

To me, all these posts echo the fact that a Berklee just rests on it's laurels now.

If you're the shit, go there for a year or two, get a gig and bail, or fall in line with the cattle paying full price for an impersonal education.

If you don't score, you end up back in your home town or any other city with a Berklee degree trying to scavenge gigs and students merely on it's merit.

There are many great university programs that will teach you just as well and offer you the attention that you want, for a much better price, if not for free (if you have promise).

The one thing state universities aren't lacking is great theory and composition classes, all they're missing is A list drum teachers; however, they might have a guy, who has amazing ability, teaching and playing, and is gonna be very involved in your progression.

Couple that with smaller competition, lower tuition and lower cost of living, and you have a great deal.

Anyways, no matter how much school you take, the real lessons are taught on the gig... nothing can compare to flight time.

That being said, you might want to think about your school's locale and the fact that you will be networking in that vicinity.

[Josiah]

If you can find the back issue of MD from like '05 or so Abe Jr on the cover, talked about his Berklee experience and really was not kind to the school.

What people like Josiah are not grasping is that musical development is about playing with people who are better than you. Not shedding in a practice space. Private lessons don't work that well either when it comes to your ensemble chops. Really in the big leagues, all that matters is if you can play with a band.

Actually you are quite wrong, it's the exact opposite. That's party why I choose MI - the people you play with in class are session cats, NOT other students. The result is, the only person who's going to mess up, is you. A completely invaluable experience that very few schools offer.
LPW's not withstanding almost every class I had at MI had a pro guitarist and bassist, from jazz to rock. 3 horn band (which isn't around anymore unfortunately) even had session piano and horn players.
The experience is indeed invaluable, coming out of that I could sit down in any gig, any playing situation, any genre with confidence.

[Robert Bluman]

Those instructors are being paid to play with you. It's not nearly the same as a jam session with upper class students who are better than you. Not only that, most upper class Berklee Students from around the globe play as well as if not better than MI instructors. Look at Kendrick Scott. An ensemble teacher will not yell at you to get your shi*! together or that your feel sucks. A fellow student will. This is also what happens in real life. Guys being hired to teach you because there isn't enough other work around, is not real playing experience. Going up and playing 2 songs with a 3 horn band, and sitting back down while other students play is not real life and not real playing. Focusing on reading and vocational skills is not real life. M.I has only recently turned into a 4 year school where you can develop. Initially they would cram all this info into 1 one year. That also is not real development. Berklee and schools like it are 24hours playing. Musicians Institute has no jazz program, no horn players, no acoustic bass players, and no piano faculty. Just keyboard. It's a different type of place. Geared toward kids that want to be rock stars, not musicians. You think the former 3 horn band experience at MI would be like being in one of the many big bands at Manhattan School Of Music, THe NEw School, Berklee, or North Texas? No way.

[Josiah]

That response is just absurd gibberish, but was entertaining to read. You're opinions are completely invalid and lack any empirical evidence for support. It is very obvious you have a very misinformed and bias opinion of the school, for whatever reason.

Just to point out how absurd your comment is - "M.I has only recently turned into a 4 year school where you can develop...." Wrong. M.I. has had 4 year degree programs for nearly 20 years.


"Not only that, most upper class Berklee Students from around the globe play as well as if not better than MI instructors."

Now THAT is absolutely hilarious! You so obviously have no clue what you are talking about.

[CPS]

DSOP - that's an AWESOME idea! Not only to get an insight into Berklee, but modern muso's mindsets as they're finding/ about to find their feet in the world etc