Seeking Justice for Musicians in Jazz Clubs

[circh bustom]

Someone like Elvin Jones talks about playing in some seedy bar from 8pm-4am with only one break to eat a sandwich, making peanuts, and we bow down at their altar. That was when bars and clubs were packed all night long and musicians still barely made enough to survive. Maybe this whole situation will spawn the next generation of clubs to be opened and run by musicians. My wife and I would like to someday own an establishment that serves food and has live music. Part of the draw for me was my experience in the club world and the thought that I could use that to be mutually adventageous for both the musicians and myself as the owner.

[DSOP]

My wife and I would like to someday own an establishment that serves food and has live music. Part of the draw for me was my experience in the club world and the thought that I could use that to be mutually adventageous for both the musicians and myself as the owner.

You can do it and succeed at it. You just need to do it right (and own the building).

[DSOP]

It also is very telling about you as a player - You obviously do not play live music. You have no idea what you are talking about. It's pretty rare I'll call someone out, but that there tells me you are not a player.

You don't know shit about me.

[Ardent15]

It also is very telling about you as a player - You obviously do not play live music. You have no idea what you are talking about. It's pretty rare I'll call someone out, but that there tells me you are not a player.

Uh, I can vouch for DSOP-and I don't know him well, but I know others who do. Don't go down this path, dude.

[Yussuf]

It's beyond me why a musician would NOT defend his/her rights to get paid for his/her craft.

Art Blakey put it once: "Only birds sing for free".

[Josiah]

You don't know shit about me.

Actually I know many things about you, but this in particular -

You can "play for the joy of playing" in your basement or rehearsal room. The only reason bands perform and don't demand payment is because they are being rewarded in a different way: by having their ego stroked.

That is the statement of someone who does not know the joy of playing live music. Maybe you lost it or have grown disenchanted with playing music. But either way, that is a very telling statement for any musician to make.

It is tantamount to saying "I will only play for other people if I'm paid" - which is the completely wrong attitude about music. It's also a VERY stupid attitude to have about anything that involves networking. Some of the highest paying gigs I've got resulted directly from taking other gigs that didn't pay or paid very little, a circumstance that is very common in the music business.


Getting paid to play is awesome, but believe it or not most musicians across the world don't make a dime playing music.

It's like the difference between the Major's and Minor's. In one case you have people who are talented, but it's all about the money. In the other case you have people who are very talented, who don't make much at all, and it's about the love of the game.

If you have a very small group of people who believe they can and should demand particular payment for playing and you have a much larger group of people who will gladly play out of the joy of it and take payment as a secondary issue... guess which group is going to get crushed?

And here you are, complaining that group A is not getting as much money anymore because group B is knocking them out. Not much of a mystery why and complaining about it doesn't change the circumstances that created it.

[DSOP]

Keep it up dude. Good luck with that. Keep chasing that carrot.

[Josiah]

Hey you're the one constantly bitching about jazz musicians not making enough money. You started this thread for exactly that purpose.


It's the attitude you have about money and being paid that directly causes the situation you are complaining about.

[DSOP]

Right. If everyone would just give up and work for free, it would all work out.

What color is the sky in your world anyway?

[deseipel]

I respect the attitude that you have to never say no to a gig, but there comes a point where enough's enough. Be smart about it and perhaps only do benefits.

If more musicians stood up to all the jerk offs asking them to gig for free (to start with), we'd all be better off.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/78468650/La-Club-Owners


and this guy couldn't be more right on, you really need to understand when free is a good thing. And I think it's hardly ever a good thing for musicians & gigs.