VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

amoergosum
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Re: VINNIE - Vintage videos...OK or not vintage.

Postby amoergosum » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:26 am

It resurfaced on YouTube >>>

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Pocketplayer
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Re: VINNIE - Vintage videos...OK or not vintage.

Postby Pocketplayer » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:23 pm

Stupid question...Why does he need to read on this song?
I would assume it is all feel at this point...he's heard the
song a million times already...nothing complicated about
the structure.

Mitchell's version was better...less notes and stayed with
groove...Vinnie overplays and his interpretations can be
less musical for me. At 3:00 he just lets it all go...best part
is the camera rolling at the end.
Jeff Porcaro Groove Master
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robhaerr
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Re: VINNIE - Vintage videos...OK or not vintage.

Postby robhaerr » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:36 am

Please remind me who the guitar player/singer is on this Manic Depression video...thank you!
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Jo Esp
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Re: VINNIE - Vintage videos...OK or not vintage.

Postby Jo Esp » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:45 am

robhaerr wrote:Please remind me who the guitar player/singer is on this Manic Depression video...thank you!


I think its Kimo Williams from his album Tracking.
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robhaerr
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Re: VINNIE - Vintage videos...OK or not vintage.

Postby robhaerr » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:20 am

YES!

Thanks...I was racking me brain...Kiko, Kiki....I knew it was something like that. Found it here...

http://www.allmusic.com/album/tracking-mw0000035550

No doubt some fun stuff.
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nomsgmusic
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Re: VINNIE - Vintage videos...OK or not vintage.

Postby nomsgmusic » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:58 am

Pocketplayer wrote:Stupid question...Why does he need to read on this song?
I would assume it is all feel at this point...he's heard the
song a million times already...nothing complicated about
the structure.


The answer... Proper people skills, and professionalism. Think about it, a person takes the time to create (possibly pay a copyist to create, or punch it out on a computer) a chart, and then (if he's a good bandleader) he goes to the time of checking it and making sure it's correct.

Then you come in, and he presents you with that chart. You blow it off and say "Yeah, I know this tune, I don't need a chart!" (Can you say, getting off on the wrong foot? ) What if there ARE additions to the chart (that aren't in the original? You miss them and look bad ("Uhhh sorry, maybe I do need a chart.") Just unprofessional. If a chart is provided, you take it, read it (correctly,) or at the least "look like" you're using it.

This wasn't a first take, so Vinnie had already read the chart down, and professional musicians are expected to internalize a chart after one reading, especially if it is something they are familiar with. That's probably why he doesn't seem to look at it much (in my opinion.) But note, he still keeps it there. He's got nothing to prove, if you don't need the chart, then you don't look at it, but you don't just take it down as to say, "Hey look, now I'll play this without a chart!"

I doubt this was a direct "transcription" of the Hendrix version (we would have to put them next to one another and start counting bars.) But odds are, SOMETHING was changed (presumably he was playing to Kimo's previously recorded track, and adding the drums last, not that it would make much of a difference to this subject.) But even if there were no anomalies in the chart, when a chart is presented to you, you put the chart next to you, let your ears (and eyes) be your guide, and say thanks for the chart (whether you use it or not.) No harm, no foul, very happy bandleader-employer, check clears, phone rings in the future!

Of course it's a completely different situation if the bandleader doesn't have a chart and gives you the ol' "You'll hear it." I played (and toured) with a big band for 5ish years, and NEVER saw one chart.

Proper people skills and professionalism, one of the MANY reasons there are 30 pages of clips of Vinnie here for us to watch!
MSG
[url][/url]bluejayrecords.com/drumatic
[url][/url]vicfirth.com/artists/mark_griffith.html
Rodge
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Re: VINNIE - Vintage videos...OK or not vintage.

Postby Rodge » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:07 am

Right on Mark.
I come from Tain, Vinnie, Omar, Jeff, Fish, Stewart, and many more...
Avi_drums
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Re: VINNIE - Vintage videos...OK or not vintage.

Postby Avi_drums » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:41 am

nomsgmusic wrote:
Pocketplayer wrote:Stupid question...Why does he need to read on this song?
I would assume it is all feel at this point...he's heard the
song a million times already...nothing complicated about
the structure.


The answer... Proper people skills, and professionalism. Think about it, a person takes the time to create (possibly pay a copyist to create, or punch it out on a computer) a chart, and then (if he's a good bandleader) he goes to the time of checking it and making sure it's correct.

Then you come in, and he presents you with that chart. You blow it off and say "Yeah, I know this tune, I don't need a chart!" (Can you say, getting off on the wrong foot? ) What if there ARE additions to the chart (that aren't in the original? You miss them and look bad ("Uhhh sorry, maybe I do need a chart.") Just unprofessional. If a chart is provided, you take it, read it (correctly,) or at the least "look like" you're using it.

This wasn't a first take, so Vinnie had already read the chart down, and professional musicians are expected to internalize a chart after one reading, especially if it is something they are familiar with. That's probably why he doesn't seem to look at it much (in my opinion.) But note, he still keeps it there. He's got nothing to prove, if you don't need the chart, then you don't look at it, but you don't just take it down as to say, "Hey look, now I'll play this without a chart!"

I doubt this was a direct "transcription" of the Hendrix version (we would have to put them next to one another and start counting bars.) But odds are, SOMETHING was changed (presumably he was playing to Kimo's previously recorded track, and adding the drums last, not that it would make much of a difference to this subject.) But even if there were no anomalies in the chart, when a chart is presented to you, you put the chart next to you, let your ears (and eyes) be your guide, and say thanks for the chart (whether you use it or not.) No harm, no foul, very happy bandleader-employer, check clears, phone rings in the future!

Of course it's a completely different situation if the bandleader doesn't have a chart and gives you the ol' "You'll hear it." I played (and toured) with a big band for 5ish years, and NEVER saw one chart.

Proper people skills and professionalism, one of the MANY reasons there are 30 pages of clips of Vinnie here for us to watch!
MSG


Sounds reasonable to me.
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Kurtis
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Re: VINNIE - Vintage videos...OK or not vintage.

Postby Kurtis » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:10 pm

If you have heard the tune off the album there's horns in it. They didn't stray to far from Hendrix's arraignment. He reads so good why not have a chart. Why depend on memory when the road map is right there. People would give up there left or right tessty to be able to read like he can. Some would give up both tessties to be able to play like him.
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Pocketplayer
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Re: VINNIE - Vintage videos...OK or not vintage.

Postby Pocketplayer » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:13 pm

Now THAT was a well thought out answer! Not sure what was more a blessing, the answer
or the effort. Refreshing!

Thanks.

This is something I have wondered for a long time now relating to "covers" or popular
songs most of us know or can nail quickly. The reading skills related to more complex
music is always impressive...sometimes more than the playing itself for me.

I guess the Kimo session was a bit more serious than this...
Jeff Porcaro Groove Master
http://jeffporcaro.blogspot.com

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