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Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:23 am
by Patrick Tiglao
nomsgmusic wrote:Pocket,

They are playing a duet. When a soloist and a drummer are really "hooked up" or "in sync" (whatever you want to call it, the soloist can signal to the piano and bass to lay out (or if they are REALLY listening they can just hear that it's time to lay out for a chorus or so.) This will allow ht e soloist and the drummer to really speak and interact, unencumbered by keeping strict time or playing the changes. It's a conversation (like Rodge said.)

Allan liked to play duets with drummers, Gary and Chad both told me that this was something that Allan really liked to do. I think on Gary's old instructional tape he and Allan played a duet. And I have seen him do it live with Gary, Chad, and (I think) Novak and even John Marshall as well. Musically it can be very freeing, there is a long history of it in the jazz idiom.

Who else could get away with this? Off the top of my head. Jack DeJohnette and Mike Brecker, Elvin and Coltrane, Roy Haynes and Coltrane, Rashied Ali and Coltrane, Max Roach and Cecil Taylor (or Anthony Braxton,) Tony Williams and Cecil Taylor, Bill Stewart and Joe Lovano, Bill Stewart and John Scofield, Weckl and Oz (I think,) Jeff Watts and Branford, Steve McCall and Fred Anderson, Steve Smith and Mike Stern, Omar and Branford (with Sting, I think?) Peter Erskine and Wayne Shorter, Eric Gravatt and Wayne Shorter, Eric Gravatt and McCoy Tyner... I could go on for days. The first jazz duets that I ever heard were a 1947 recording of drummer Alvin Stoller and trumpeter Roy Eldridge.

It's high level improvisation!!! Think of it this way. Two people are having a conversation while speaking simultaneously. Both people are listening, talking, leaving space, and reacting to what the other person is saying ALL at the SAME time, SIMULTANEOUSLY! This is actually an old acting-improvisation excersise.

It's really cool to hear to actors do it well. And even cooler to hear two GREAT musical improvisers do it with their instruments inside of a musical context. It's very difficult to do, and requires BIG ears and a lot of trust between the two musicians. But it can be wonderful for really freeing you up, both in practice and in performance. And... IT'S FUN !!!!!!!!

Rodge, How many tracks is Vinnie on, on that Rich Ruttenberg record, who else is on it?

Hope all are staying heathy and safe during these VERY strange times!
Mark



I love doing duets. First time I heard a duet was Elvin and John and Weck and Chick ( tales of the daring pt3).

Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:19 pm
by Pocketplayer
THAT was an intelligent response! It changed my mind...
I will listen again with this in mind...and grow!

Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:42 pm
by beat hit
nomsgmusic wrote:Pocket,

They are playing a duet. When a soloist and a drummer are really "hooked up" or "in sync" (whatever you want to call it, the soloist can signal to the piano and bass to lay out (or if they are REALLY listening they can just hear that it's time to lay out for a chorus or so.) This will allow ht e soloist and the drummer to really speak and interact, unencumbered by keeping strict time or playing the changes. It's a conversation (like Rodge said.)

Allan liked to play duets with drummers, Gary and Chad both told me that this was something that Allan really liked to do. I think on Gary's old instructional tape he and Allan played a duet. And I have seen him do it live with Gary, Chad, and (I think) Novak and even John Marshall as well. Musically it can be very freeing, there is a long history of it in the jazz idiom.

Who else could get away with this? Off the top of my head. Jack DeJohnette and Mike Brecker, Elvin and Coltrane, Roy Haynes and Coltrane, Rashied Ali and Coltrane, Max Roach and Cecil Taylor (or Anthony Braxton,) Tony Williams and Cecil Taylor, Bill Stewart and Joe Lovano, Bill Stewart and John Scofield, Weckl and Oz (I think,) Jeff Watts and Branford, Steve McCall and Fred Anderson, Steve Smith and Mike Stern, Omar and Branford (with Sting, I think?) Peter Erskine and Wayne Shorter, Eric Gravatt and Wayne Shorter, Eric Gravatt and McCoy Tyner... I could go on for days. The first jazz duets that I ever heard were a 1947 recording of drummer Alvin Stoller and trumpeter Roy Eldridge.

It's high level improvisation!!! Think of it this way. Two people are having a conversation while speaking simultaneously. Both people are listening, talking, leaving space, and reacting to what the other person is saying ALL at the SAME time, SIMULTANEOUSLY! This is actually an old acting-improvisation excersise.

It's really cool to hear to actors do it well. And even cooler to hear two GREAT musical improvisers do it with their instruments inside of a musical context. It's very difficult to do, and requires BIG ears and a lot of trust between the two musicians. But it can be wonderful for really freeing you up, both in practice and in performance. And... IT'S FUN !!!!!!!!

Rodge, How many tracks is Vinnie on, on that Rich Ruttenberg record, who else is on it?

Hope all are staying heathy and safe during these VERY strange times!
Mark


Here's Erskoman with Wayne Shorter


Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:46 pm
by treeinrock
Are those real fireworks going off in the last reprise of the head ? or is it Zawinul's music concrete ?

DUET / Vinnie w/ Anyone Else

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:53 pm
by jean krupa
When it comes to drummers going at it in duet with another
instrumentalist, yes, there is of course Elvin/Trane and all
the other examples.

Since this is a VC thread, the MOST IMPRESSIVE duet with
anyone I have heard is Vinnie with Scott. I think it was
1987 and GRP was touring and Vinnie and Scott went at it.
Vinnie will NEVER run out of ideas.

As you know, he leads.
Yes he listens but always feeds, replies and keeps feeding.
Most drummers, after a while, will start to exhaust their
ideas, and start playing time (2 &4 if rock oriented).

But, Vinnie continues to find more phrasings in and around
the form and seems like he could go on forever if the
other instrumentalist did not signal "head." One of my
favorite boots and periods in VC's career.

Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:50 pm
by Juan Expósito
This is new to me.
Scary Vinnie.

Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:50 am
by Tom Reschke
Juan Expósito wrote:This is new to me.
Scary Vinnie.

I'm not even through the first tune but I can tell I'll be listening to this a couple more times for sure. It's pretty good audio, you can hear every note. Thanks for posting, Juan!

Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:56 pm
by Pocketplayer
Above video...BRILLIANT! Just that first groove kills. Such a deep pocket
between drums n bass...YIKES.

Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:19 pm
by bananajou

Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:33 pm
by Kurtis


Great quality recording.