Carlock moves to Grestch

Josiah
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Re: Carlock moves to Grestch

Postby Josiah » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:28 pm

It is broadly known that several drummers are paid. And has been mentioned artists include Weckl and Gadd.

I heard the figures straight from (which I'll decline to mention) Yamamoto myself, in person, while at dinner with him and several other Yamaha personal.


If you people don't think companies pay for endorsement at that level, I'd love to know what drugs your own. There isn't an industry in the world that operates on that business model.

You think Zildjian just had a $300,000+ RV custom covered with Gadd and Zildijian images for his clinic tour to cart him around... and NOT pay him? You seriously gotta be high. Answer these then....

Simple question:

If a drummer can just go out and buy his drums, cymbals and heads what motivation is there to endorse a given company?

A few grand in drums and cymbals is petty change for what most these guys make.


Here's a more complex one:

If it was all for free, and no money was involved, why do these companies EMPLOY legal entities to draw up lengthy contracts for endorsement?


Here's the kicker:

Why would these companies spend the money to hire lawyers to negotiate patent buyouts, but not pay their own endorsers?
DSOP
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Re: Carlock moves to Grestch

Postby DSOP » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:50 pm

What people are referring to is "pay to play", not "pay for services". And we're talking about drum manufacturers, not cymbal makers.
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JohnDrum
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Re: Carlock moves to Grestch

Postby JohnDrum » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:45 am

bstocky wrote:I absolutely agree. I'm just saying even the most unique sounding artists can get their sound out of any equipment.


Absolutely: a case in point is Ginger Baker: when Cream reformed in 2005 and he showed up with a gleaming brand new set of DWs, they sounded exactly like his old Ludwigs from the 60s... ;)
People whistle the song -they don't whistle your drum part - Ringo Starr
Henry II
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Re: Carlock moves to Grestch

Postby Henry II » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:56 am

JohnDrum wrote:
bstocky wrote:I absolutely agree. I'm just saying even the most unique sounding artists can get their sound out of any equipment.


Absolutely: a case in point is Ginger Baker: when Cream reformed in 2005 and he showed up with a gleaming brand new set of DWs, they sounded exactly like his old Ludwigs from the 60s... ;)


I always thought that that's what DW was going for.
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Johnny D
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Re: Carlock moves to Grestch

Postby Johnny D » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:50 am

Hi guys,

I hope everyone is doing well… Nice to see some of you at NAMM… I haven’t been on in a while and had to weigh-in on this… specifically to respond to the post by Josiah.

Josiah, I don’t know where you get your information, or if it’s just conjecture on your part, but it’s completely inaccurate.

Do you work in the industry, or are you asserting that you’re somehow “in the know”?

Well, I DO work in the industry and those here that know me might say I’m “in the know”, but in any case, I’m here to tell you that your comments about artists being paid are completely false. And I guarantee that the people from Yamaha you had dinner with probably weren’t at a level to be privy to such things.

To make such an inflammatory and unsubstantiated comment like Keith’s reason for moving to Gretsch was about money is just bogus. Sorry man, but I have to call you out on that.

A couple of points to clarify:

It wasn’t an RV, it was a fully-equipped tour bus. Big difference. And it was leased, so we didn’t pay $300k. But let me get this straight… you think that because we used graphics of Steve’s image on the bus that we paid him? Do you think when a company advertises an artist in Modern Drummer or DRUM! that he or she is paid? Because if so, this is where fantasy begins and reality disappears.

It’s standard operating procedure for companies (and individuals) to hire lawyers. I’ve worked in the drum industry for 27 years and I don’t know of any companies that “EMPLOY” legal entities. Does Zildjian use a law firm to handle legal matters? You bet. None of us here at Zildjian went to law school. Your point about “negotiating patent buyouts” is ambiguous at best, but I’m assuming you were referring to drum companies. I can tell you without giving away any trade secrets that most artist agreements (contracts) in the drum industry are two pages and less complicated or intimidating than buying a car.

Josiah, listen man, I don’t mean to come on so strong, but you have to understand that when you post information on a forum that’s as popular and as highly respected as House Of Drumming and you specifically reference guys like Steve and Keith, you better have your facts straight. Now maybe you’re just repeating what others have told you… whatever it is, it’s grossly inaccurate.

Ok, that’s enough from the “drum industry sheriff”. And I’m not on drugs… just really strong coffee :P

Best regards to all,

John P. DeChristopher
Vice President, Artist Relations & Event Marketing Worldwide
Avedis Zildjian Company
Henry II
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Re: Carlock moves to Grestch

Postby Henry II » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:59 am

Jonny,

Thank you for taking the time to, again, set the record straight. But, you're wasting your breath on Josiah. Other industry insiders and high profile artists have already weighed in on this subject and Josiah will have none of it. He is a classic example of one having the least amount of knowledge having the strongest opinions. Then again, what else would you expect from one who characterizes Jack DeJohnette's drumming as "crap."

H2
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gretsch-o-rama
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Re: Carlock moves to Grestch

Postby gretsch-o-rama » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:17 am

I also enjoy really strong coffee. lol
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cbrady
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Re: Carlock moves to Grestch

Postby cbrady » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:26 am

Thanks for weighing in Johnny D! Amen! I think your testimony along with Erskine's and Haler's should be a sufficient answer to this assertion.
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Da Chooch
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Re: Carlock moves to Grestch

Postby Da Chooch » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:25 am

Johnny - D in da house! thank you for that insight.
....ALWAYS let the Wookie win....
old_K_ride
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Re: Carlock moves to Grestch

Postby old_K_ride » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:56 am

JohnDrum wrote:
bstocky wrote:I absolutely agree. I'm just saying even the most unique sounding artists can get their sound out of any equipment.


Absolutely: a case in point is Ginger Baker: when Cream reformed in 2005 and he showed up with a gleaming brand new set of DWs, they sounded exactly like his old Ludwigs from the 60s... ;)

Ginger's exit from Ludwig occurred well before Cream's reunion. He did it in a huff when Ludwig wouldn't ship a brand new kit to NYC with short notice from him for a club date.

IMO, Ginger's DW's sounded tubby during Cream's reunion in London & NYC. They lacked the sting and attack that he produced with his iconic Ludwig set...just my $1 worth.

TR

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