Berklee advice

[CPS]

Hey all, as there is a breadth of people from all points in the drum world that frequent here, I thought I'd come here and ask a few questions (and I'm sure from the title you can guess what!). I've started to do some research and feel like I can, with time, fulfill the criteria for the audition, but though I'd come here and ask for people's own personal experience, especially from the ear training/ harmony section, as I'm starting that from scratch. Also, knowing that Louie Palmer used to come on this forum a lot, I know he went for a year and was wondering if there was any hoop jumping as far as being a UK citizen studying abroad. Can I also say I understand Berklee is very expensive in comparison to other schools in the US, so I would prefer it if people didn't reply back with "stay in your own country/ go to this other school it'd be cheaper" - I have my heart set on Berklee and would relish the opportunity for a new start. Thanks in advance, guys.

[DSOP]

I bet Berklee can give you a bunch of help/advice with regard to the student visa stuff. I'm not sure how long they take to process/obtain.

Start here: http://www.ice.gov/sevis/students/

Other than that, good luck with your audition and enjoy the experience!

[CPS]

Thanks DSOP!

[Josiah]

My advice would be to take theory and ear training at your local community college. It's all the same information, music theory is music theory, no sense paying out the nose for it. Additionally, assuming said college has even a small music program, get yourself into some small combo playing situations. Your reading level should be very high before you go to such a school.


The UK has a very cordial relationship with the US. Your residency should not be an issue, and as DSOP mentioned, any school you go to will help you with all that.

As far as what you mentioned about the audition. The audition to get into the school is the bare minimum. For the cost and level of education, you should be substantially beyond what's required for the auditioning process.
Look at it this way, the school will take you from your playing level, lets just say you are at a 4, and ramp you to a 8. If you are at an 8, they will take you to 16. You pay the same amount regardless, the better you are going in. The better you will be coming out. And I would even venture to say that is a exponential curve. You can learn, more, faster at higher levels of playing.

How much do you play now? Practice now?

Here is the kicker, no school is going to teach you anything about playing drums you couldn't learn on your own or from high end private instructors. It's the intensity and volume, the completely immersion into the instrument that make them so much more fun and potent. And also the connections.

IMO you should be practicing at the level of several hours a day before going into that level of immersion into drumming. The physical and mental demands of that intense of an education can be daunting and a LOT of people drop out simply from the sheer volume of playing required. When I was at MI, the drop out rate was something like 80%, I would assume the same is true for all the music schools at that level.

also I think you should examine WHY you want to go to Berklee (or any higher education music school). It's a LOT of money, time and dedication. What are your goals for going to a school like that? What do you want to achieve while attending? After graduating? Do you want to play drums for a living? Etc

There are several very good "drum" schools in the US, Berklee is one of them. There is the Collective, MI, UNT, LAMA, etc Geographic location can often play a big part in things. LA, NYC, Boston, Texas, etc

Also you may want to look into the finance side of things. Berklee is VERY expensive, and unfortunately more so for out of country students (maybe?). For 4 years at Berklee you are probably looking at nearly $150,000. Current rates are about $40,000/year.

You should also have ALL possible educational requirements met prior to going into Berklee, because they are a 4 year college, there are many classes you can transfer with. Unlike places like MI, The Collective, etc where you would ONLY be taking drum classes.

*In my personal opinion, Berklee is incredibly overpriced. Particularly considering the shakeup in the drum staff over the last year. And the potential of what you can do with the same amount of money spent in other ways. There is a joke about Berklee, that none of the great players that came from the school actually graduated, most were only there for a short period of time before leaving for gigs, etc

[CPS]

Thanks for the reply, Josiah, alot of food for thought there.

[Jim Richman]

Definitely get familiar with theory, chords, ear training, piano before you go. These things can be very difficult and stressful starting out. They can possibly make your life miserable at school. Find a piano teacher who teaches theory and do it on the piano. Prepare yourself for Berkelee, right now, without having theory, your are behind the curve. If money is not an option, then do it and have your parents shell out the dough.

First off, what do you expect to learn at Berklee, and why are you going?

[DSOP]

As much as it pains me to agree with Josiah ( ), he's right on this time.

If you can get your shit together before attending, you'll be way ahead of the pack there. Maybe even try for a scholarship of some sort.

A friend of mine attended when Antonio Sanchez was there, and he says that Antonio showed up as a chops monster on day one. He took advantage of all the Berklee had to offer, and made great use of his time playing with numerous ensembles and networking like crazy. I recall reading an interview with Antonio where he admits that he had a lot of chops going into Berklee, but he didn't have the musical sense that he really needed, and Berklee helped him with that a lot.

[gretsch-o-rama]

Antonio Sanchez is one drummer that I'm on the fence about. Somedays it's ok and then other days is annoying. Like how he plays a rimclick with the middle of the stick. that really annoys me.

[funkydrummer]

As much as it pains me to agree with Josiah ( ), he's right on this time.

If you can get your shit together before attending, you'll be way ahead of the pack there. Maybe even try for a scholarship of some sort.

A friend of mine attended when Antonio Sanchez was there, and he says that Antonio showed up as a chops monster on day one. He took advantage of all the Berklee had to offer, and made great use of his time playing with numerous ensembles and networking like crazy. I recall reading an interview with Antonio where he admits that he had a lot of chops going into Berklee, but he didn't have the musical sense that he really needed, and Berklee helped him with that a lot.

If there's one thing that I wish I did back when I was in high school, it would be to get a grasp on music theory. Part of me wishes I went to Berklee or a similar school, but there is no way in hell I would have been able to afford it.

Cool little Antonio story too.

[CPS]

To be honest DSOP, scholarship is the road I'm looking down, parental help ain't an option, I've been cast adrift haha - I'll be putting the time in to tick all the proverbial boxes to a high standard before I CONSIDER applying. I'm fortunate I can whip myself into shape drum-wise and get my grade 8 this summer (never went in for grades, but pieces of paper fulfill the hoop jumping element is a necessity), but yeah just checked out musictheoryguy's channel on youtube and bumped into a friend of mine who said get lessons cos he struggled with circles of fifths (and he's one of those "learned guitar at 7/ turns his hand to any instrument" types so I intend to heed his words).

My reading is something more to do with confidence - I've been lucky enough to sit in on some West End shows and been able to follow the charts no problem, but of course jumping in and doing it is another thing altogether and a skill I intend to acquire. Why Berklee? DiCenso teaches there, and beside his great book and method therein, I've had some bumps in the road in my life as of late and I have just been able to grab hold of the reins and steer it back into my favour and the books on his reading list have changed my life a great deal. Therefore, the guy seems to practice what he preaches and embodies his ethic. I don't want to name names, but there's a certain well-known UK drum teacher who although puts out some great players isn't a joy to be around. Also, yeah, it gives me a chance to network, play in the ensembles like people have said and learn about composition and arranging etc.

The problem I've had is finding people matching the passion and commitment I have for music, and I'm talking about people in the UK that attend these trade schools and have remarked at it. I've also been enlightened to how they rip people off and my teacher Andy Leask even remarked at my last lesson regarding the education system (I haven't told him about my intentions) that "over here, we mainly make drummers (the exceptions being someone like Ralph Salmins, studied at Guildhall, played piano, nicest bloke in the world, the real f'n deal - just one example) and most of them not very good ones, over in the states, they make musicians." It's like anything, you get out of it what you put into it and I'm not seeing it as a utopian ideal, but I think I'm sick to death of the cynicism of British people and I'm surelike any educational institutions I'm gonna come across plenty of ignant little shits that know it all (or think they do), but it just seems right to give it a go. As far as the hard work goes, migrants work harder, so they say.