Practice routine stuff and groove insights.

renardvert
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Practice routine stuff and groove insights.

Postby renardvert » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:51 pm

Hi guys! I ran on this long excerpt from the (I think) Billy Ward forum. There's a lot of interesting information in there about practice and groove oriented stuff. I thought we might share stories on some of our favorite drummer's practice routines and/or groove point of view.

Hope you enjoy,

Daniel

Another rambling thought about practicing: someone (I forget who) commented about Matt Chamberlain when he was at North Texas State University. "While the rest of us were trying to play advanced co-ordination exercises and get into the 1:00 lab band, Matt was playing backbeats with a metronome." Now look at where Matt is! you might want to think about skills that might be required of you in the real world and focus your energy accordingly.

I had the good fortune to get to hang out with jazz trumpet player Bobby Shew for a couple of days back when I was in college. He has a lot to say about practice time and to this day a lot of his comments echo in my head every time I sit down to practice. Here are a few gems:

PRACTICE ON GOAL TIME, NOT CLOCK TIME
In college a lot of kids talk about the number of hours that they practice: "I practiced 6 hours yesterday!" "It only took me one hour to get that part down." "Next semester, I'm gonna free up my schedule so that I can practice 8 hours every day..." etc etc. Bobby Shew pointed out that being concerned with the clock doesn't accomplish anything. If you have goals and desires then you need to let those lead your practice schedule--not an arbitrary schedule.

If you can accomplish what you want/need in 1 hour that's fine. If it takes you 8 hours, that's fine too. In the real world, no one is keeping track. There are no medals given out for logging the most or the least hours in the practice room. Nobody asks how many hours you practiced back in 2007, they just tell you whether you are hired to play the gig or not.

Billy mentions above that he spent a lot of time practicing but it sounds like it was driven by his desire to play on the same level as his heroes. It doesn't sound like he was too concerned with punching a clock.

So if you want to get on goal time, you are going to have to feed your ears and your mind more than your eyes. It's hard to be passionate about exercise 37 on page 53 unless you really hear it (or imagine it) in an inspiring musical context. Listen to great music at every chance you get. Play with other great musicians as often as you can.

FORGET ABOUT BEING "SERIOUS" ABOUT PRACTICING
Bobby Shew said that when he was in school there were lots of aspiring classical trumpet players that would hear him playing jazz in the practice room. "Improvising is just goofing around," they would tell him. "That's not serious music." He told us that he never wanted to be serious. He always wanted music to be exciting and fun. He never wanted his practice time to feel serious but he always wanted it to be SINCERE.

Bobby Shew's point it in Navin's anecdote is very true. Moreover, the inside scoop on Matt Chamberlain speaks volumes.

I recall speaking briefly with a professor who did his perc. undergrad at Eastman when Steve Gadd was there. Allegedly, Steve would practice about eight hours a day with the metronome often set to about 40 bpms! His peers thought he was nuts for playing everything so slowly for such long periods of time, but his ability to establish a groove has never been doubted. Naturally, he practiced rudiments etc...but his employment history is due to his groove chop and not his ability to distribute a ratamacue around the drum set.

Steve Jordan may be among the most frequently hired drummers in the business. Why, becuase he can play a groove that can make an avarage song sound great and also because he plays different instruments and has consequently taught himself more about the inner workings of what it takes to produce a strong song. His keen sense of musical awareness combined with a really strong groove is what keeps him on the top of producers' phone lists.

Billy made a terrific point by indicating that listening was half the battle - music is like speaking a language...you must listen to others speak it in order to develop in your mind the types of sounds you want to produce. So listen and study a wide variety of styles, especially during times when you're in a practicing rut. Listen to more things that excite you and you'll be inspired to practice.

One of the others here suggested practicing piano. You will gain a much deeper understanding of what other players want in a drummer if you learn to play from their point of view. Further more, you will gain a greater understanding of the musical line and of composition by studying piano or guitar or even the vibes. You also become more marketable as a multi-percussionist. Jack Dejohnette, Peter Erskine, Phil Collins, Marvin Gaye (house drummer at Motown prior to Benny Benjamin) range in ability from working knowledge to down-right-dangerous on the piano.

The Matt Chamberlain/Steve Gadd references perhaps warrant the most thought because of what they've accomplished in their careers. Their ultimate chops are GROOVE and PERSONALITY. That's why they're hired as much as they are.

Personally, I often look to the three Steves...Gadd, Jordan and Ferrone. Why are they working so much in an age dominated by technical gymnasts and tradeshow "circus acts" (excluding Billy and a few others)? Because these guys, Keltner, Porcaro, Gordon, Blaine, Jackson, Hawkins, Palmer etc...groove/d they're a$$es off no matter what the tempo or style.

Devote more time to what drummer Maurice White (founder of Earth Wind & Fire and drummer on Fantella Bass' "Rescue Me") refers to as the Almighty Groove because that's the one chop that song writers and band leaders look for most in a drummer. It's as Billy said in his first DVD, "at the audition/s, the guy that didn't play the fill will likely get the gig". It's hard not to invest the majority of your time into technique because your ego will want differently but you have to "fight the groove-dragon" a bit and make technique the means to and end rather than THE end by devoting more time to practicing everything slowly. Gadd is quoted as saying "it's not where you place the notes, it's how you manage the space in between the notes that matters. Like learning to wait for beat '1'". To master that space, you MUST practice slowly...and do it often.
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sturla
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Re: Practice routine stuff and groove insights.

Postby sturla » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:20 am

Thanks! That was a nice read, and it holds so much truth to it.
Julián Fernández
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Re: Practice routine stuff and groove insights.

Postby Julián Fernández » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:19 am

Great read! Thanks...
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Rhythmatist
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Re: Practice routine stuff and groove insights.

Postby Rhythmatist » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:18 am

I thought this was going to be one of "those" posts about routines. I was pleasantly surprised! Very good find, thank you so much for sharing that. More often than not I find myself slowing something down to the ridiculous just to allow my mind to wrap around it until the mental/physical get aligned.
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Re: Practice routine stuff and groove insights.

Postby Josiah » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:44 pm

^As you should.


Though I have to greatly disagree with anything referencing a persons "amount" of hiring or work they accomplished. Times have changed drastically, the days of session cats are long over.

"The Matt Chamberlain/Steve Gadd references perhaps warrant the most thought because of what they've accomplished in their careers. [...] That's why they're hired as much as they are. "

Gadd isn't really hired that much. At all. Somebody list the last records he's done in the last 5 years. It's a very small number. And nothing compared to the 70's. You simply can not compare a career (in any industry) from 40 years ago to today. That's just nonsense and stupid.

Musicality, personality and playing are super important. But it's not the same working environment, or even playing environment. More players are getting better, faster then ever before.

Unfortunately the truth seems to come down to, who you know. Nothing more or less. You can have the greatest skill in the world, you aren't cracking the LA session scene. Take a gander through the last few years of Modern Drummer mags, MOST of the cover (and other) articles are for drummers with successful bands, not because they are playing on a 250 albums that year.

I tell students now, you want to make a living playing drums? You better be good at everything. And fast. Because someone else is out there trying to do exactly what you do, and they can do it better.

"If you can accomplish what you want/need in 1 hour that's fine. If it takes you 8 hours, that's fine too. In the real world, no one is keeping track. "

That is so totally inaccurate to real life. And so sad someone in a position of influence would propagate such an attitude.

In the REAL WORLD people ARE keeping track. School is perhaps the only place where you have all the time in the world to work stuff out. You don't have that luxury in real life, no matter what industry you are talking about. Studio time is measured in dollars per minute. Everyone is watching the clock, school is a great place to spend the time when you have it - but that's certainly not a representation of the real world.

I'm sorry to break the news to whoever - but if it takes you 8 hours to get down the same thing it takes someone else an hour, and someone else 20 minutes. Those people are going to smash on your job availability. It's a rough measure of necessary ability, but there still is a bottom line. If it takes you 8 times longer to learn material then your peers, that probably is not the most viable industry for you.

All things being equal, someone who can get the job done 8x faster then you, is going to get your job. That's the REAL world. Nobody is going to pay for you to fumble your way through figures somebody else can sight read.

Come on, I'm all for positive encouragement, but a lot of this is just glitter bombing some hopefuls and sugar coating the stark reality that awaits outside academia's doors.

There's no consolation prizes in the real world, there's eviction notices.

*I'm all for grooving to a click. The metronome is the master, all notes should always be in time. But the fact of the matter is "human groove" is a lot less important now a days. Not an excuse, but just the reality that going into a session situation, your playing is 90% of the time going to be sampled, quantized and spliced all over. Matt Chamberlin talked about this in his last MD cover interview, I believe actually quoted as saying he had flicked a piece of paper in front of a mic to be used a snare sample.

Music, and Drumming, should not be treated any different then any other professional line of work or study. Nobody is telling future Doctors "don't worry if it takes you 8 hours what it takes another person 1 hour, in the real world nobody is counting" ... because nobody is going to hire you...
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Tom Reschke
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Re: Practice routine stuff and groove insights.

Postby Tom Reschke » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:23 pm

Goddamn it. Steve Gadd is almost 60 years old. Yes, the recording scene has changed since back in the day, but you have continually pointed out that he doesn't work as much as he used to. Hey, maybe he doesn't work a ton anymore because he's an older man who wants to relax and spend time with his family, or fish, or whatever else floats his boat besides playing music. Every time you mention Gadd, it seems, that you're disparaging his lack of output recently. Perhaps he's just enjoying the golden years.
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Re: Practice routine stuff and groove insights.

Postby Josiah » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:33 pm

Tom Reschke wrote: Every time you mention Gadd, it seems, that you're disparaging his lack of output recently. Perhaps he's just enjoying the golden years.


No, not at all. I'm just responding to a quote that seems to relate how much Gadd has worked as a drummer, to today's aspiring drummer. Did you not read anything?

"Steve Gadd references perhaps warrant the most thought because of what they've accomplished in their careers."

Look at what Henry Ford did!!! OH MY GOD!! You too can start a car company!!! But really you can't.

Here I'll be SUPER nice and clear, just for you.


Gadd is an amazing drummer. As are many drummers from that era. Not taking away from Steve Gadd's work as a drummer. To compare that time period, and the volume of recording work he and others did in the 70s, to 2012, seems absolutely obtuse of the changing environment of modern music record making, the hiring processes, unions, number of studios doing recordings and number of albums being recorded.


Look, these guys are all great. Made huge marks on the world of music. But you gotta be a complete tool if you are going to say "Well yes, so and so did all of this 40 years ago, so you can do the same thing today!"

Just like whatever tool said "If it takes you 8 hours, that's fine too. In the real world, no one is keeping track."

Anybody, with any job, even a gas station clerk, knows that is totally bullshit.

We need to be realistic in how we talk to people, these are not 2nd graders. We can stop telling them they can be race car drivers and astronauts. The real world IS keeping track of how long it takes you, be it your crappy job and a bathroom break or a studio costing $200/hour...
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willyz
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Re: Practice routine stuff and groove insights.

Postby willyz » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:44 pm

Tom Reschke wrote:Goddamn it. Steve Gadd is almost 60 years old. Yes, the recording scene has changed since back in the day, but you have continually pointed out that he doesn't work as much as he used to. Hey, maybe he doesn't work a ton anymore because he's an older man who wants to relax and spend time with his family, or fish, or whatever else floats his boat besides playing music. Every time you mention Gadd, it seems, that you're disparaging his lack of output recently. Perhaps he's just enjoying the golden years.


This is very realistic. He probably doesn't get hired as much anymore by choice. Why that isn't the first point in logic regarding Steve Gadd and his fantatic, damn near life long career is beside me...

But of course- someone has to come into a good thread and piss all over it. Josiah- the day you take Steve Gadd's gigs, monkies will fly out of my ass.
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Julián Fernández
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Re: Practice routine stuff and groove insights.

Postby Julián Fernández » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:40 pm

Josiah wrote: Just like whatever tool said "If it takes you 8 hours, that's fine too. In the real world, no one is keeping track." Anybody, with any job, even a gas station clerk, knows that is totally bullshit.


You´re taking that out of context... That was about your short term goals for your practicing time... No one keep track of the hours you´re hitting the shed, that should be your business.
In fact, most of the time, when a drummer start talking about their practice routine and stuff it gets old and corny very quickly.
It´s pretty easy, really... Practice as much as you can (stop complaining about the past or the future or whatever), play as much as you can and hope for the best. You´ll find your way eventually... 8-)
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Lucas Ives
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Re: Practice routine stuff and groove insights.

Postby Lucas Ives » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:59 pm

Josiah, I think I speak for a lot of folks when I saw you're an absolute joy to have around here.

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