Revealing Simultaneous Relationship in Time

[Mark Levine]

In posting rhythmic activity of this kind, i am not saying it is easy. I am showing my respect to All Master Drummers.
I am amazed at the ability and depth of understanding, Vinnie and other great artists have, at hearing and feeling at such a scary level.

I do not have sound files for this. If seeing the files alone does not work for you then simply dismiss it.
If you are willing to try the following with the files and it works for you, that is awesome.

To play the cycle slowly with a metronome, an option is to use the 3rd values of the 8th note triplet, as a note notation for metronome's pulse. In other words, every pulse (or click sound) of the metronome, is on a note of the 8th note triplet.

As you hear the metronome's pulse at a very slow tempo, Count Out Loud the Second Line of Numbers:
12345 12345 123123 1234 as you play the 6 stroke roll sticking on Line (A). You will begin to feel it and hear it.

Then follow the instructions on file 1 over a quarter note pulse. The second file is the same thing over an 8th note pulse.

To the forum administrator who sees this. I prefer to have this post kept and the locked down post removed. Thank you.

[DSOP]

If you're really into this stuff that much, I suggest you post a YouTube video where you clearly demonstrate your concepts.

Working on finer divisions of time definitely helps your overall relationship to time, but studies like this can wreak havoc on a drummer who doesn't have the maturity to assimilate it into his/her playing. I worked through all of Chaffee's stuff back in the 80s, and I loved it, but I definitely played some fucked up shit as a result of that study, which people did not appreciate (for the most part). Even when I studied with Chad Wackerman, he told me that the only time this stuff worked live was when several musicians played the rhythms together (for the most part).

[Jim Richman]

If you're really into this stuff that much, I suggest you post a YouTube video where you clearly demonstrate your concepts.

Working on finer divisions of time definitely helps your overall relationship to time, but studies like this can wreak havoc on a drummer who doesn't have the maturity to assimilate it into his/her playing. I worked through all of Chaffee's stuff back in the 80s, and I loved it, but I definitely played some fucked up shit as a result of that study, which people did not appreciate (for the most part). Even when I studied with Chad Wackerman, he told me that the only time this stuff worked live was when several musicians played the rhythms together (for the most part).

I agree. When playing such complex patterns, they usually are composed in the song. And the composer is the one who would demonstrate an example for other musicians to assimilate.

[Mark Levine]

These files have been posted before (under a different title), but a miscommunication occurred causing the original post to be deleted.

Click on the attached JPGs (1, 2, 3) to view.

A 5 stroke roll. Polymeters and Polyrhythms.
They can exist at the same time on a rhythm of continuous 8th notes in 4/4 meter.

The primary meter is four four (4/4).
The 5 stroke roll can be thought of as five eight meter (5/8).
Eight measures of (5/8) will cycle over Five measures of (4/4). Polymeter.

The Polyrhythm is the relationship between the accent of the 5 stroke roll and the metronome's pulse.
8 accents are evenly spaced over 10 half note pulses, or (8:10).
8 accents are evenly spaced over 5 whole note pulses, or (8:5).

The accent of the 5 stroke roll is on the fifth 8th note of every five 8th notes.
Above the 8th notes is a curved line.
It is a slur sign, or phrase mark. A phrase mark identifies a sequence of notes as a unified idea.
A complete musical expression of shape and form.

Another fun option is, turn off the metronome and play the 5 stroke roll cycle to songs that you like.
Not only in different sections of the tune, but starting from different quarter note beats or 8th notes in the measure.

[DSOP]

Or:

[matthughen]

Same BS, new thread? This content is from a thread that is still active and NOT closed:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1370


This is your closed thread featuring paradilddle cat. That was not a miscommunication:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1337

What is different about these two open threads and their initial content?

[DSOP]

[john lamb]

5:6 contains 5:2 and 5:3 in it.

Everything on these pages is correct. The meter is irrelevant. It's all about the relationship between the imposed rhythm over the pulse. You could pull this type of thing over dotted eigthnotes and still notate it as 5:2.

Yes and no... 5:6 does have the other relationships implied, but unless you actually accent them, unless you imply the movement that 5:2, 5:3 imply, then they aren't there. Thus if you plugged the notation (no matter what time signature you write it in) into a computer it would sound thin.


For example: It is super common to have a slow 2 feel over a larger phrase... Indian classical music calls it the (name is escaping me atm) ... Indian musicians emphasive the first note in the Tala and the midpoint, effectively creating a slow 2 feel over the entire piece, in addition to the stated Tala structure.

[DeeP_FRieD]

5:6 contains 5:2 and 5:3 in it.

Everything on these pages is correct. The meter is irrelevant. It's all about the relationship between the imposed rhythm over the pulse. You could pull this type of thing over dotted eigthnotes and still notate it as 5:2.

Yes and no... 5:6 does have the other relationships implied, but unless you actually accent them, unless you imply the movement that 5:2, 5:3 imply, then they aren't there. Thus if you plugged the notation (no matter what time signature you write it in) into a computer it would sound thin.


For example: It is super common to have a slow 2 feel over a larger phrase... Indian classical music calls it the (name is escaping me atm) ... Indian musicians emphasive the first note in the Tala and the midpoint, effectively creating a slow 2 feel over the entire piece, in addition to the stated Tala structure.

I was speaking mathematically, not phrase wise. Regardless of how you accent, mathematically those polyrhythms are there.

[john lamb]

The polyrhythms are there, as long as the resulting tempos are between 30-300 bpm ... outside of this we will hear a pulse, but it won't have a meter. However, if you don't emphasize some notes over others, then the meter is ambiguous. A listener could year a pulse in 2 or 3. Usually two, but without contrast the meter is undefined.

I guess we are talking from different perspectives... I'm taking about how the music is perceived by the listener. The listener will add contrast if absent, but in that case you can't control what the listener hears/feels. By adding contrast, you can define what the picture is.