speed test

percusski
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Re: speed test

Postby percusski » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:44 pm

Thanks guys, especially Matt's response, if a 'snare' guy has problems with it then I know i'm definitely justified. The drag and stroke, yes with some work I could probably get it up there for a few bars but it would be messy, the drag paradiddle is just completely unfriendly to play, but like Matt says, it's just bullshit designed to be difficult with no value.
The reply from the exam board contact indicated that the rudiments listed are 'standard in British percussion music' (in response to me quoting the PAS list) - as a UK resident myself I have always observed the list the PAS represent as being the standard...in addition, having searched the closest I could find online was this, Scottish snare drum rudiments..surprise surprise it seems identical to the PAS list: http://www.gobookee.org/get_book.php?u= ... VkaW1lbnQ=
I told my student to ask the examiner to demonstrate those rudiments in the exam..
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matthughen
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Re: speed test

Postby matthughen » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:43 am

Julián Fernández wrote:
matthughen wrote:That said, DCI style drumming is often OVER-RATED in terms of it's usefulness within the real world of making a living playing drums, imho of course


Interesting you said that... Would you care to elaborate about it? Thanks!

Let me say this first. DCI style rudimental snare drumming has done much for me personally and many other folks a well. I do not mean to discount anyone's personal experiences. That said, here we go...
Most importantly to me, that DCI style drumming can be over-rated in the real world comes from the simple fact that there are far FEWER gigs for the specialty than for solid, traditional drum set players. If you plan on making a living as a drummer, you would be well advised to NOT overly specialize in such an esoteric version of the drumming art form. The band leaders that hire you do not care if you can burn paradiddles at 350 or can play double inverted flammy cheese dogs off the left. Further, there are lots of skills necessary to be successful in DCI that have little to do with musical expression. Many of the techniques taught in the DCI world are about looking uniform with the players around you, not what is the best physical approach for a drummer. For example, I spent a short time in the Cavaliers organization and can say that the hand positions and stroke technique taught there in 1990/1991 were impractical in the real world; hands as low as the rim, sticks basically flat, strict finger positions, only rotating wrists... WTF!?! Well, they did look amazing as a drumline and placed very well that season. I have personally experienced and have run into many who have the same experience of spending much time "unlearning" later in the drumming career some of what was taught in DCI.

Understanding rudiments and variations is very useful. I learned to be an exceptional listener from DCI. I can hear and identify who made a mistake even if they are 6 snare drummers away from me. I still have friends from the activity. It was valuable as a personal growth experience. I am able to understand some of the most nuanced and esoteric expressions of snare drumming. I value my experiences in DCI. That said, nobody who has ever hired me for a non-rudiment specific gig gave a shit about my execution of double inverted flammy cheese dogs off the left.

Good teachers go a long way. Pete Sapadin (vic firth), for instance, teaches a method that stresses some fundamental concepts that often get overlooked by many in the activity. He actually teaches good time and a sense of groove as being important. He teaches a relaxed physical approach. This goes a LONG way to making the activity much more rewarding to ones drumming future.

To bring it around to this thread, spending a large amount of time practicing something so useless as "drag and strokes" or practicing keeping ones middle finger straight and stiff in the left hand traditional grip to achieve visual uniformity is not only useless, but may even be a setback when considering how one could spend their time actually becoming a better, more rounded musician.
Julián Fernández
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Re: speed test

Postby Julián Fernández » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:13 pm

Cool post, Matt! Thanks for the insights! ;)
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matthughen
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Re: speed test

Postby matthughen » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:39 pm

Was curious to see if there was any resolution to this story...
TIA
percusski
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Re: speed test

Postby percusski » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:37 pm

na, I lost interest to be honest, too many other things to be getting on with...i tried tracking down the guy who they said put much of the material together but seems impossible (despite him being a leading figure in UK drum/percussion education -i'd never heard of him), I was also going to contact their 'percussion expert' too but just haven't had time, we'll just see what happens in the grading, if asked to perform these rudiments, I've told him to ask for a demonstration or perform one of the correct variations.
they are adamant that it's all correct and that's that ha ha
percusski
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Re: speed test

Postby percusski » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:25 pm

The guy who wrote the rudiments syllabus replied to me as follows:
'the two rudiments you ask about are correct.These are not mis- prints. The speeds are also correct.Grade eight is a high standard of competancy. There are other interpretations of rudiments which are much less common. If you don't mind my saying in twenty five or so years of these rudiments being published,teachers and performers nationwide have never questioned these two rudiments, or indeed most of the others.'
I guess that's that then... :|
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matthughen
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Re: speed test

Postby matthughen » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:37 pm

Thanks for the update. I would love to see a youtube video of that guy (or anyone for that matter) executing those "rudiments" at the speeds notated. Just goes to show ya that sometimes teachers teach because they can't actually do.
percusski
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Re: speed test

Postby percusski » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:52 am

Yeah I've politely asked if he can link me to any videos of either himself or someone else performing the rudiments at grade 8 tempi...i'd imagine it will be a no. I'm not saying they are impossible to play (with practice) simply that they are ridiculous speeds for grade 8 which is ultimately below 'professional' level...anyway, clearly, like my first post stated there must be some incredible rudiments guys here in the UK...I've not met them but they must be everywhere!!!
David Francis
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Re: speed test

Postby David Francis » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:02 pm

It's got to be a mistake. Of course there is a rudiment called the drag paradiddle but in my opinion what they have printed there ain't no stinkin' drag paradiddle! The Trinity and Guildhall books are the only place I can ever recall seeing it printed that way. If they can point out a snare drum piece or book that features their version of this rudiment I am prepared to eat my words.
I also find it a cause for concern that they seem not to know (or possibly care) that the rest of humanity has a different definition for this rudiment. It's comparable to having a piano syllabus where C major has 4 sharps!
I wonder if they'd look into it properly if they had multiple letters/emails about this?
percusski
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Re: speed test

Postby percusski » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:49 pm

Agreed David, are you in the UK btw? The guy's name is Brian Stone, I understand he wrote the syllabus for Guildhall too (don't quote me) so that would explain it. Of course there is no information on the internet about him or his work, obviously by documenting this stuff in grade books it validates their existence as legitimate rudiments. If you are in the UK David I'm wondering whether you are similar to me in thinking that the American (PASIC) drum rudiments are the ones normally referred to here, at least I always have...just a mystery to me and more so that nobody ever has queried them.

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