Do big name guys get honest constructive feedback?

[AllenS]

One pattern emerges here...relationship. We tend to trust those we know and respect.
This can be good and bad. I think in the past, there was more surprise by an artist.

Imagine Gadd tinkering with the 50 Ways groove...no big deal, just playing around
between takes and Paul Simon says, "I kinda like that" and Steve works it into a groove.
Do you really think he knew it would land so strong with drummers in particular and be
copied and mimicked for decades?

Gadd's vocabulary is what he knows. Porcaro starting so many songs the same way is what
he knows. Virg's vocabulary what he knows. My vocabulary what I know. Do we change
it because someone doesn't care for it?

Do big name guys get honest constructive feedback?
I guess I ask now what "constructive" feedback is? Time is constructive feedback, but that also
depends on the song and what the feel is the artist or songwriter wants. Sometimes imperfect
time works better. Space and dynamics is constructive feedback. Orchestration of parts
constructive feedback.

When you hire Dave or Vinnie or...you know what you're getting. So, what then determines
constructive feedback?

Would be interesting (to me) if drummers here share feedback they have received from others
and share their reaction. What was constructive and what did you dismiss as not being
constructive? How did this challenge your confidence? Was it worth fighting over if it came
from a band member or artist paying you? Other?

Great points. Re: "Do we change it because someone doesn't care for it?"-hopefully if an artist changes, it is ultimately because they challenge themselves. Not because someone else doesn't like it. The former is where genuine musical growth comes from, IMHO.

Though some guys get away with doing the same thing in a variety of different contexts. See JR Robinson or Steve Ferrone. They always play like themselves, regardless of the gig. And you know what? It works.

On that note: I have been listening to a lot of Nashville pop-country recently. Lots of great musicianship and production, but it's literally a hit-making machine (the Nashville scene, that is) with tons of songs, artists, and albums that sound the same. Yet would you tell the top Nashville songwriters that they need to think outside the box more, to try something different? I don't think I could.

[AllenS]

If you've been playing long enough, and have had your share of successes and failures, you get to a point where no one needs to tell you when you've played well, or missed the mark. It is your own opinion, which is often far more critical than anyone else's, that matters.

Personally, I know what I need to work on, beyond what I "want" to work on; I know what my strengths are (or strength, singular, is), and I am capable of analyzing my playing in real time, and especially during playback.

Beyond that, everyone has a few close friends who will always tell them the truth about their playing, if that opinion is solicited.

I think these are good points, too....

[Pocketplayer]

Yet would you tell the top Nashville songwriters that they need to think outside the box more, to try something different? I don't think I could.

This point imo is more about taking personal risk to rock the establishment,
the "hit machine" and paradigm of money...it is always about money and safety.

The real risk might be, "Do I have the balls to leave this world because my
conscience bothers me?" "Am I willing to give up a paycheck or financial
security to follow my convictions?" Imo, THAT is the road least taken.

Tell Nashville producer X your feelings at a party, 1:1, and he might say,
"Yeah...but what are you gonna do...just the way it is bro...to be honest
I get a little tired of the formula."

He might also feel otherwise...but I'm sure in a circle at work, this is not
the time to voice rocking the system...to heavy a subject. One might
get asked to focus on their work and not worry about things they can't
control. Actually be seen as a flake or dreamer. Thinking has its risks.

Yet, the cycle of time will show when things get too generic, say 1990,
there will be an explosion called Nirvana that will shift the paradigm.
Timing issue I'd imagine. Grohl got lucky really. He paid his dues no doubt,
but he entered the culture when it was ready to topple with Wilson Phillips
at the top of the charts. It was time to Smell(s) Like Teen Spirit!

...and I'm sure there was some cat, maybe working in the mail room in
Nashville outside a corporate meeting when the suits were freaking out
about this new band that is threatening the established "hit machine"
with a smirk thinking, "Yeah...I'm just a dreamer am I" as he rolls his cart
to the next office.