Developing Consistent/Solid Time

tjbdrums
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:20 am

Developing Consistent/Solid Time

Postby tjbdrums » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:28 am

hey guys.

Im a long time reader of this forum but this is my first contribution. it regards something Ive kind of been a little obsessive with over the last couple of years (sometimes probably way too much). having consistent, solid time.

For a long time, as an exercise Ive been putting a click on 2 and 4, only for 4 bars then switching it off, playing a groove for 3-4 minutes, then switching the click back on while Im still playing and seeing if the tempo has shifted. Ive been doing this across a wide range of tempos and feels. since I started doing this, my consistency has really improved (when I started doing this, it was REALLY quite soul destroying:-) but still there are some days where some tempos speed up and some slow down and I really can't hear it or make it sit. I know this is a semi-natural thing but as a goal, Im really trying to be as accurate and consistent as I can, no matter if Im feeling tired, energetic, hungry, whatever! is this a stupid and un-attainable benchmark to set or is it something that I should continue to be striving to achieve?

to be clear, when I say consistent time, Im also talking about maintaining a nice feel. not a robotic-quantised sterile thing. I know time and a good feel go hand in hand. I also know that sometimes it really doesn't matter if some tunes speed up or slow down, Im more talking about this as an exercise to help try and develop a stronger internal sense of time and hopefully get rid of any bad tendencies to speed up or slow down playing certain tempos/feels.

I really look forward to hearing some other opinions on this

cheers!
User avatar
gretsch-o-rama
Posts: 780
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:31 am
Location: Hornell, NY

Re: Developing Consistent/Solid Time

Postby gretsch-o-rama » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:27 am

In my opinion, solid/consistent time feel/tempo can be adversely controlled/effected by improper foot technique. I've heard great drummers like JR and Weckl say similar things... So for me, without getting too artsy/crafty(or tap dancey)lol I try to have both my entire legs as mobilized as possible, including the ankles which are crucial. I also sit on the edge of the seat as much as possible. I find this "loosens" my ankles to have more of a flow, IMO. JR said that he didn't really unlock great feeling time until he got his feet together. Now he plays mostly heel down. And a lot of the "greats" had dancing experience that perhaps they brought to the drumset...Like Gadd, Ferrone, Papa Jo........
"Ding ding da ding." Apollo teaching Rocky how to Jazz.
renardvert
Posts: 224
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:20 pm
Contact:

Re: Developing Consistent/Solid Time

Postby renardvert » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:35 am

The quote at 0:14 where he refers to Jojo Mayer best describes what I think of playing solid consistent time:

tjbdrums
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:20 am

Re: Developing Consistent/Solid Time

Postby tjbdrums » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:59 pm

Thanks for the replies guys! The foot technique thing is something Ive heard about but haven't dived into too much. Definitely worth concentrating on more though!

As for the Benny Greb video, thats kind of where my obsession started! :-) such a great DVD full of awesome info
User avatar
Cymbalfeltfetishist
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:14 am

Re: Developing Consistent/Solid Time

Postby Cymbalfeltfetishist » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:30 pm

To me an important aspect of playing good consistent time is how your limbs move. Weckl has a section on this from his "How to Develop Technique" vid. In a nutshell it's saying if you consistently move your arms wrists legs in time with subdivisions of the beat, you will be in time. A simple example playing eight notes on the hi hat - counting 1 an 2 an 3 an 4 an - and using a Moeller motion on the "an's" by bending your wrist - you can be, in esssence, in perfect time. Slow tempos more motion, fast tempos less motion. Once this is in your muscle memory, then you are playing in time, no matter what you are playing. This has to be developed of course.

A lot of people think of the pulse of the beat and playing in time with that, but your subdivisions have to be in time as well. This was a huge lesson for me. If you play subdivisions sloppy, your time, even tho may be steady (quarter note pulse), your beat can sound choppy. Try to play paradiddles, doubles, singles, etc etc clean as possible. Again use the motion of your limbs to help keep consistency.

I would also recommend metronome work. Get that pulse in your head so when its not there, its still clicking in your head. Know what that pulse sounds like...practice with it and get it inside your body.

I liked Jeff Berlin's take on good time...."if you know the song, you will automatically play it in good time" Look it up on youtube. It is a take I havent thought about, but a lot of it made sense to me.
User avatar
langmick
Posts: 1593
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:38 am

Re: Developing Consistent/Solid Time

Postby langmick » Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:50 pm

I think knowing how a vocalist will sing is very important, or even a soloist.

Knowing that allows you to feel the music more deeply than if you were to just practice with a metronome.

However, practicing with a metronome is also important, but not just blowing notes, but playing simply for long periods, while singing melodies that you know or develop.

That said, I'd love to know how Simon Phillips developed his inner sense of time, or if it's all natural.
User avatar
gretsch-o-rama
Posts: 780
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:31 am
Location: Hornell, NY

Re: Developing Consistent/Solid Time

Postby gretsch-o-rama » Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:01 pm

langmick wrote:I think knowing how a vocalist will sing is very important, or even a soloist.

Knowing that allows you to feel the music more deeply than if you were to just practice with a metronome.

However, practicing with a metronome is also important, but not just blowing notes, but playing simply for long periods, while singing melodies that you know or develop.

That said, I'd love to know how Simon Phillips developed his inner sense of time, or if it's all natural.



Simon is more Billy Cobham than Billy Cobham these days...
"Ding ding da ding." Apollo teaching Rocky how to Jazz.
Jim Richman
Posts: 477
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:29 pm

Re: Developing Consistent/Solid Time

Postby Jim Richman » Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:12 pm

My time is more solid from recording a lot in my home studio. Playing and recording to a variety of songs(with a clicktrack) and tempo is a great way to get your time together. You can hear how you sound in the song, and if you are in time or not. Re-record and fix whatever problems you have, or if you want to try something out. Playing with just a click is kind of impersonal to me and leaves out a lot of what music is about. :D
If you must just use a click, get a few cool sticking patterns and work thru some time rates. Keep a foot on quarters and you are good to go. And a foot on 2 and 4 would be cool too. :lol:
Keith Mansfield rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User avatar
DeeP_FRieD
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Tempe, AZ
Contact:

Re: Developing Consistent/Solid Time

Postby DeeP_FRieD » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:33 pm

Listen to more music.

By listen I do not mean try to transcribe it while it's happening, but listen and enjoy.

I found great advances in my time/feel when I stopped listening like a drummer and started experiencing music holistically (not just intellectually).
User avatar
Matthijs Ament
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:08 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Developing Consistent/Solid Time

Postby Matthijs Ament » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:14 am

Something happens in the brain. If I listen to drummers or my recorded self, I can single out time fluctuations pretty easy. But 'on the fly' I don't always hear these changes in time. So the goal is to 'hear' as you play in the same way as you just sit down and listen. We have to deal with 'how' our brains are wired. Therefore, what might work for me, might not work for you. Key is movement [Gruber!!], how you listen as you play, awareness of the overall music and what your fellow musicians are doing [drag by sax players, speeding guitars, early or late vocals etc]

Return to “Drumming Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 87 guests