TOTO XIV w/Carlock

[electrizer]

Many thanks Sorry for stealing the thread for a moment there

[Rodge]

Yeah, I agree with you Paul, with Toto, start by the begining, you'll hear one of my favorite Jeff's shuffle ever on Toto II ("Hydra"), "Mama" !!!

David Hungate did the last tour, Toto original bass player, and with Shannon playing Jeff inspired, they did the full circle, back to the roots in term of rhythm section, I'm fan.

[Pocketplayer]

Don't do this often, but this is a TOTO/Jeff discussion.

This can bring some newer fans up to speed;

http://jeffporcaro.blogspot.com

I would add Greg B in the discussion with Shannon as my first choice.
Not sure how to react on the production discussion and Keith's playing.
I think it is great and a huge change over Simon's style...much more
TOTO-like in the era of Jeff, which I always think of first.

It also feels like he didn't have enough time with the music to really
deliver the perfect parts.

How long Keith got to sit with these tunes is unknown...how long does any new
player have? This is a topic all to itself...when I think of the "session drummer"
from the past driving to studio A at 11:30am to record and then do another
session at 3pm at studio B...how long did they have to deliver perfect parts?

In the end, the guys in TOTO were happy with Keith's playing and let him do
his thing. Shannon gets to tour copying signature parts (he really keeps to the
recorded performances)...when he plays Pamela, it is much more like Jeff
than what Simon did (the hat jazz shuffle groove). Shannon in general plays
the shuffle tunes much better (in the Porcaro style).

I also was thrown off at first by Paich's intro vocals on Great Expectations.
That song is amazing...like an intense roller coaster--it just has so many
loops and turns. Who writes like this today?

[Kurtis]

Pocket I am with you! How can you bitch and wine about this band. The can of worms is out. You can pick apart anything until your left with shit.

Keith could have been let loose, tamed or somewhere Inbetween. Who cares. As drummers we all want more. Everyone who has commented on this topic didn't qualify to play on the record. Just a bunch of cool guys who chime in to evaluate about the record. I agree with Keith not getting some time to shine. He played some musical stuff for sure.

I'm a huge Luke fan and no matter what he plays on I just like. David's vocals were a bit "what the heck is in his mouth". I can get pass that cause I like his tone and vocals in general. These cats have been around for 3 decades puting out great music. We get older. Musical performance takes a hit. You can't play like your 29 your entire life. Health issues and so forth. I'm genuinely happy they put out this record and enjoy it. My 7 year old daughter loves it. She also loves the latest Dream Theater album and that's another topic.

I hope they keep out putting more music. Via Toto or session guys.

[Pocketplayer]

lol...love me some kurtis straight talk.

I'm not sure there was bitchin' about the band...there are some strong microscopes here
at HOD...and that shows depth and maturity to evaluate...it's a delicate process for sure.

All I can say is the Live Youtube video of this record was amazing. Luke was different.
A weight was off him to carry the band with Steve and David up there. We can all
understand this...it is a band (family thing)...think of Thanksgiving dinner...it has a certain
vibe, then your uncle comes over who has that "life energy" and the whole vibe changes.
Some feel more relaxed and safe when he is there...dad chills, your aunt stops trying to
micromanage things.

I recently jammed with an old band from the 80's...it was weird. The SAME dynamics
were present just like back in college at 21. I sat behind the kit bored while the
keyboard player and guitar worked out parts. When we finally jammed, the guitarist
was hesitant to go for it. The keyboard player has this sort of power over him...then
the keyboard player's 20yo son comes in and plays bass. Everything changes. We all
loosen up. He has no boundaries..."Let's just got for it guys" and I lock into a groove,
he follows, the guitar lets loose. TOTO is first a bunch of dudes, then they are crazy
good musicians. They're human like us.

Imo, Luke felt the security of his boys back in the band and this LP reflects that...
knowing these guys level of excellence, Keith felt the pressure and probably (just
my thot) played it more straight forward to fit in and gel with David (he is a large
personality...a big daddy type). Who would want to follow Simon anyways?
His recorded performances with TOTO are stellar. Tambu is just stupid good.

TOTO w/Shannon is a perfect fit right now...that dude knows his role as a drummer.
He is an MI clinic in action of doing all the right things. Mucho respect!!!

[Juan Expósito]

Interesting reading in all the posts !!
My quick input:
- "Jeff was a musician and Simon is a drummer". I don´t agree much. But Who am I to discuss this with Steve Lukather? I would like to know more about this Steve´s thought.
- I don´t like Tambu.
- I love Mindfields.
- I love Falling in Between very much.
- An of course Toto´s classics.
- In the first listenings of this last record I think I don´t like it.

And about the drumming: Jeff, Simon, Shanon...I don´t see/listen Keith in this band. The problem is mine for sure.

But again, we are playing to say things about a group of TOP musicians that we love very much.
And talking, respectfully, is entertaning.
Cheers.

[Pocketplayer]

I have looked for that Luke interview...it might have been an audio podcast???
If I find it, I'll post and you can digest for yourself.

In the end, it ain't shit..
Luke loves Jeff and he has a special place in his life, and simply comments
on playing with Simon in that context. For anyone to think this diminishes
Simon is just immature imo. If Plant said I've played with many drummers,
but in the end, there really is only one, John, would that diss the other cats?
Not at all...some relationships trump all others...if we think it is just about
drumming, we shortchange all the other parts of life, like the brotherhood
that draws people together over lots of time and experiences. Luke's relationship
with Jeff was special...deep, like the older brother you always look up to.
Listen to this podcast...his love for the guy is plastered from start to end.

[Juan Expósito]

Thanks for the podcast link Pocketplayer.
That´s what I thought. What I found hard to believe is that Steve Lukather says in the same sentence: "Jeff was a musician, Simon is a drummer".
Steve talks about Jeff with a very deep and wide emotion: Jeff was like his brother, his friend...and an unique musician.
He talks about Simon with all the respects, as with the other many names that Steve names.
The comparative thing is what I found rare to digest, and Steve doesn´t take the conversation on that side, of course.
Thanks again for the link.
I miss Jeff.
**********************
Damn, Steve Lukather talks fast !!
I had to do my best in order to understand that great man words !!

[Juan Expósito]

I update myself;
Definitely I don´t like last Toto album: neither the compositions nor the sound, nor the drumming.

Tambu - I´m liking it.

My car is now Toto 100%:
My car 6 CD Player has inserted now: Mindfields, Tambu, Falling in Between and XVI.
What a difference in sound and compositions !!!
XVI sounds really rare. Another world in sound quality compared to the other 3 albums. Drums are another planet too (drumming and sound).

[Rodge]

I almost never heard on CD any Toto album without Jeff...
But I saw Simon killing on stage with the band, it was great !!!

But I like that song :