Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

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thewikiman
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby thewikiman » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:43 am

Kurtis wrote:Pocket I love the one man band rush clip you posted. The guy came pretty darn close to Neil's parts but played his take. I can play his parts note for note on most songs. That shit is challenging. If I hear someone play a rush tune note for note I'm giggling


Also mentioned in that thread but I don't think embedded was his one man Genesis - I'm more familiar with Genesis than Rush so this completely blew me away. The playing is amazing, the fact he does all four / five parts is amazing, his 17 minute arrangement is amazing, but the SOUNDS!

I've never heard a cover with so much respect for the original timbre and tone of everything. It's magnificent. Almost indistinguishable from the records at times.

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langmick
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby langmick » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:34 am

I've been contacted by another PF tribute in Ohio. The keys player sings soem Waters and after a gig this past weekend he tells me he isn't pleased with his vocals and the guys in the band were getting on him (took that w a grain of salt).

My advice to him was that you can't sound like anyone but yourself when it comes down to relaying the information in the lyrics. You have to do the best you can and not try to ape the original singer. Otherwise there is a barrier. Ian with Brit Floyd sounds like himself singing PF tunes.

"The realty is the cover scene pays the same as it did 30 years ago.."

No raises playing in bars. Tributes pay better. Everyone in the group I ran got paid $400, even when I didn't. I know that's not what the guys were making playing solo acoustic shows.

But still, they persisted...

I see Jerry Marotta is playing in a Steely Dan tribute. I would love to see that.
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Odd-Arne Oseberg
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby Odd-Arne Oseberg » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:35 am

It's true here, too. Money in the bar scene hasn't changed since '73. If you're a regular and they know you sell beer you can negotiate, though.

All sorts of private and closed events are the thing.

Getting hired to fill spots in a hobbyist group like the upcoming gig I have with the local big band is decent, I get about $600 which is basically just scale, what the union recommends. These types are few, though. The hired soloists often have a package they sell for this type of stuff though, so it's a major part of their income. They send the music, come for one rehearsal a month or so ahead if possible and then come back for the gig.

Now, I play like me, but it's not like I come in and do Steve Vai style on a Ellington tune. It's simply that I bring my strat, the pedals I need and do something appropriate. If they asked me to change something there's no ego as this is not my band, I'm on the job, but it rarely happens. I play more solos than would usually be normal at such a gig, but that's just because so few in the band can.

Building up and pushing the gain a little past standard is sometimes welcome as it provides an inspirational variation and a dynamic lift.

Now, I try to approximate the tone for each tunes style, but it's 99% hands and controls on the guitar itself.
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langmick
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby langmick » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:31 am

You're better off forming an LLC and getting a band together to play things you want. It's more work, of course, but it's more respected by better musicians.

Drummers are in a good place to do that, but you should have allies that can help with arrangements and also counteract lead singers. :)
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GoAndPractice
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby GoAndPractice » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:58 am

I'm usually particular about the drum parts unless we're clearly doing a different version of the song. I can't stand it when everyone in the band has learned the riff or whatever, but the drummer is playing the wrong groove or kick drum pattern.

I like to be exact when I can on other people's parts too, I think that kind of stuff matters on a subconscious level to the casual listener.

The bass part in Cissy Strut
The piano part in Dock of the Bay
The piano part in I Want You Back
The guitar part in I Wish

Unless it's an established "our version of the song" or "we're going to shred on this one" I like to stick to sound-alike as much as possible without compromising live energy.
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Odd-Arne Oseberg
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby Odd-Arne Oseberg » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:08 am

I did do a gig with a band that had this thing about doing "Sultans of Swing" exactly like the original recorded version.

I did it, but of course it's weird to me. I grew up with DS and Mrak's long improvised solos.


I dropped by the big band rehearsal today and I didn't mess much with this intro, though. :lol:

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Riddim
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby Riddim » Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:45 pm

I think it depends on the gig. A wedding band - you're probably expected to clone the parts. Bar band - maybe, maybe not. Tribute band - absolutely.
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby Odd-Arne Oseberg » Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Jazz band - everything is optional. :lol:

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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby Jim Richman » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:53 am

I've been in situations like this. The hardest thing to do is to not get riled up over mistakes happening around you. You have to deal with them in a positive way. You also must accept that you are no better than anyone in the band. If playing with people get you on a heavy negative, I find it best to leave. It is unhealthy to play music with negative feelings.
I will easily change a drum beat on a song to four on the floor if there is dancing going on. You must play a beat that fits the arrangement( or lack of) the band is doing.
If you are dressed up like Devo, then you play note perfect. If you are in a t-shirt and playing random stuff, play dumbed down beats, take a look around, rock out, and chill.
Keith Mansfield rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Pocketplayer
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby Pocketplayer » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:05 am

OK...glad I made this thread...excellent feedback.

I like to be exact when I can on other people's parts too,
I think that kind of stuff matters on a subconscious level to the
casual listener...Unless it's an established "our version of the song"
or "we're going to shred on this one" I like to stick to sound-alike as
much as possible without compromising live energy.


We come from a similar space. I don't do 'bar bands' and immediately
think of the movie Road House w/Jeff Healy--bottles thrown, the "cage"...lol

I didn't really focus on context as much before sharing this...and
looking back, a lot of this is my stuff (perfectionism issues) but
I do believe the 'on a subconscious level to the casual listener'
is relevant. I guess in my mind, I am playing for the serious
music lover...the guy who when driving away says, "Man...
they nailed it!" because he knows the music well...popular
covers.

Then there is the POV that people actually want to see a band
get more real with their playing...go outside and make it their
own. Dance music at a wedding is a very different gig...you want
to make the bride and her family happy, the guests happy, very
positive vibe...people are focused on relationships and the details
not as relevant. Bar gig also focused on guy picking up girl or
people letting off steam or whatnot. The gigs I do are people
coming to see a cover band play specific songs...more listening
to the music for a specific social event--executive b-day party.
Even here, it is about making the paying guest look good to his
peers...a matter of pride for him. He doesn't want to go to
work knowing the band at his party sucked...it is a point of
pride for these guys...ego boost on the golf course, "Steve...
great party, that band kick ass" kinda thing!

Here is where I feel I HAVE to nail specific parts...
* Journey Separate Ways (Smith's 5/4 fill)

* Journey Faithfully (Smith's crafted tom fills)

* Heart Barracuda (I try to play just like the record...I have practiced
to the record 100's of times, so...even Michael D in his tribute Heart
band doesn't play like he did on record, but that's what I want to hear
from a drummer, so...)

* TOTO Hold the Line (I play this exactly like Jeff...open hats in same place,
same fills...heavy triplet feel on hats)

* J Browne Runnin' on Empty (Kunckle's end fill HAS to be there)

Also...I like the guitar player to nail the tone of the covers...that really
locks in the tune to the audience from note one. I did make a goof w/t
guitar player (see below)

I have a ? for Lang...when you played PF in a tribute band, didn't you try
to nail the original parts...what was your approach? What did the other guys
want? Didn't they do the same w/guitars?

As for the actual original artists, like Sting or P Gabriel or...here's what I think,
we (I) have listened to their songs MUCH more than they ever have (studio cuts).
I go back to Yvette Preyer w/M McDonald on I Keep Forgetting (no disrespect for
her playing) BUT...she played 8th notes...EIGHTH NOTES on the hats of this
Jeff classic groove. That is anathema for me! HOW...WHY? Why didn't Michael
say something? You get what I am saying? How many "people/drummers" heard
this and thought, "What is happening with this song?" I just do not get this kinda thing.
The 16th note pattern, ONE HAND, is just what we do as drummers...you HAVE to
play that 16th note groove!

Lastly, I play church gigs and this is a totally different gig as a drummer...I need
to make sure 200-1000 people are ALL on the same page...very 'cookies on the
bottom shelf' and huge on TIME, so the "other" gig allows for more intricate
playing and more personality. Again, I think most of this is about me and how
I developed, listening to records (studio cuts) and thinking I HAD to play exactly
like the record as a kid, and it stuck with me...hard to change that now. Playing
w/others (covers) I realize they did not develop like this, so I need to chill...BUT,
these Youtube kids who play guitar parts w/tone exactly like artists makes me want
that type of player...I did make the mistake of telling the guitar player this...
that did not go over well!

YES...that Genesis one man band dude is INSANE...blew me away...again, if he just
played one instrument, excellent, but ALL of them! AND the sound? Guys like
this mess me up...if he can make THIS amount of effort, then...(this is where I
get in trouble with others) lol
Jeff Porcaro Groove Master
http://jeffporcaro.blogspot.com

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