Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

User avatar
Lucas Ives
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:53 pm

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Postby Lucas Ives » Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:17 pm

YamahaPlayer wrote:It should additionally be noted that almost all libraries in the US, and elsewhere, have CD's for checkout at the library. This again is 100% free and at least the libraries here, have everything from classical to new releases, 2010 major label releases. 'DSOP' might be a little upset to hear about that...


It should additionally, additionally be noted that your ripping those CDs to your hard drive is not what the library had in mind.
YamahaPlayer
Posts: 537
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:23 am

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Postby YamahaPlayer » Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:31 pm

Lucas Ives wrote:This doesn't even pass the straight face test. Most of the works of art on display in museums are either donated by or on loan by their rightful owners.

I create something and make it available for a fee. If you take it without paying that fee, you are stealing. The end.

Once again, I posit you've never had to support yourself as a musician.


Most the worlds art works are in galleries across the nation, not museums. It's pretty laughable you could consider "art" to simply encompass the small world of CLASSICAL art.
The art district here must have 50+ galleries on one street. All of which anyone can walk into and view any piece of art, for any amount of time - for free.

Again, as I mentioned. The libraries have massive music collections, available, for free - legally.

In college, the music library, incredibly extensive, was available for free as well as copying any piece of music - again, legally, 100% legit on the books.

The public highschool I work at has music in it's library, again, for free.

Radio is free.


Lucas Ives wrote:Once again, I posit you've never had to support yourself as a musician.


Because of my opinion on free music? Your logic falls apart with the list of professional musicians that are FOR free trade, as already mentioned in this thread.

I've supported myself as a musician for the entirety of my adult life, I also paid for both my college degree's from playing drums, purchased all of my gear from playing drums, my truck, my car, pay rent and even eat occasionally - from music.
Now that I think about it, I think maybe 5% or less of my income has come from royalties or an artist selling records of any kind.

Believe it or not, some of us play music out of love for music. Not love for money. If you wanted to be rich, don't be a musician.


*You can check out a CD from a library, here at least for up to 8 weeks, at a time. That's pretty much the equivalent of owning it. What's the difference between checking out a CD for 8 weeks at a time or having it on your ipod?
User avatar
Lucas Ives
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:53 pm

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Postby Lucas Ives » Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:46 pm

YamahaPlayer wrote:
Most the worlds art works are in galleries across the nation, not museums. It's pretty laughable you could consider "art" to simply encompass the small world of CLASSICAL art.
The art district here must have 50+ galleries on one street. All of which anyone can walk into and view any piece of art, for any amount of time - for free.


You had mentioned museums with an entrance fee, that's specifically to what I was referring. Most gallery situations offer the artist an opportunity to gain exposure and/or sell their work, and -- here's the key difference -- the artist is making the choice to do that themselves.

Again, as I mentioned. The libraries have massive music collections, available, for free - legally.


Public libraries do not permit the whole duplication of printed or digital works, and they do not permit the distribution of those works. That's not one of your rights as a borrower.

In college, the music library, incredibly extensive, was available for free as well as copying any piece of music - again, legally, 100% legit on the books.
The public highschool I work at has music in it's library, again, for free.


I'd be very interested to see their written policy on duplication and re-use. My bet is it's a lot less permissive than you're claiming, but hey, prove me wrong.

Radio is free.


That you're not the one paying to tune the dial does not imply the artists aren't being compensated for their work being broadcast on that medium.

Your logic falls apart with the list of professional musicians that are FOR free trade, as already mentioned in this thread.


Feel free to freely distribute those artists' work who are all for the free distribution of their work. But as soon as you copy or distribute anything that you're asked not to copy or distribute, you're stealing.

You can check out a CD from a library, here at least for up to 8 weeks, at a time. That's pretty much the equivalent of owning it. What's the difference between checking out a CD for 8 weeks at a time or having it on your ipod?


As long as you delete it off your iPod when you return the CD to the library, you're in the clear with me.
YamahaPlayer
Posts: 537
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:23 am

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Postby YamahaPlayer » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:17 pm

I had to think about it, I would say less then 1% of my income as a musician has been made from royalties. The majority of it from live performance by far. So in a sense, I don't really feel effected by downloading or at least threatened by it.

So then, the question becomes:

What is the difference between having a CD (that you legally got for free at the library) ripped on to your ipod for, say 2 weeks, a month, etc VS forever?


What is the significant difference?

Now basically you are just saying it's a time limit on how long you can have a given album or song until you should have to pay for it. Isn't the time limit set by the library truly arbitrary as it is?


Another question must be asked, what is the true average artist percentage of income off album sales? I would be surprised if it's more then 5% myself.
User avatar
deseipel
Posts: 551
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Postby deseipel » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:30 pm

its' funny that you used 'legally got for free' and 'ripped' (which is slang for rip-off) in the same sentence.

The point is, when you copy from the library, it's stealing. Doesn't matter for how long you have the copy.


Your last question is simply trying to rationalize theft. Make no mistake, when you rip CDs, you're taking money out of the artists pocket. The road you're going down is "the little bit that the artist would've recieved is so miniscule...". It adds up.

I can't believe you actually believe these thoughts that you type. I don't even know where to begin.
User avatar
Lucas Ives
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:53 pm

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Postby Lucas Ives » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:33 pm

YamahaPlayer wrote:What is the difference between having a CD (that you legally got for free at the library) ripped on to your ipod for, say 2 weeks, a month, etc VS forever? What is the significant difference?

Now basically you are just saying it's a time limit on how long you can have a given album or song until you should have to pay for it. Isn't the time limit set by the library truly arbitrary as it is?


The difference is there is a finite number of CDs in the library's catalog. If you have it checked out, I can't check it out until you bring it back. If you like it so much that you miss it when you don't have it, maybe you'll decide that it's worth buying your own copy. Or maybe the library will buy another copy because it's in demand.

Another question must be asked, what is the true average artist percentage of income off album sales? I would be surprised if it's more then 5% myself.


Next time you're in NYC, go on down to the 55 Bar and ask Mike Stern his answer to that question.

And even if it were one millionth of one percent, you're still stealing.
YamahaPlayer
Posts: 537
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:23 am

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Postby YamahaPlayer » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:57 pm

You guys do realize entire music genre's have become created based on "stealing" right? The Amen Break is a prime example. Anyway...



If you can access music of any kind for free via every other possible medium, why not digital?


How am I not stealing then, by playing in a cover band that makes money by playing other peoples music? The license fee's are a joke and everyone knows that.
User avatar
deseipel
Posts: 551
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Contact:

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Postby deseipel » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:29 pm

YamahaPlayer wrote:You guys do realize entire music genre's have become created based on "stealing" right? The Amen Break is a prime example. Anyway...



If you can access music of any kind for free via every other possible medium, why not digital?


How am I not stealing then, by playing in a cover band that makes money by playing other peoples music? The license fee's are a joke and everyone knows that.



oh, so stealing is ok as long as a genre is created out of it? People get sued all the time for sampling stuff they don't own. Just because the copyright holder for the Amen Break didn't sue, doesn't make it ok.

who has 'access' to any kind of music for free? You mean the library? And you're suggesting a digital library? You'd have to return it when it was due.

The BMI/ASCAP fees aren't a joke, I've run into many owners who tried not paying them (the fees vary on club capacity). The owners are required to pay those fees. It's all part of the law. They are large companies that can sue the pants off of small clubs.
YamahaPlayer
Posts: 537
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:23 am

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Postby YamahaPlayer » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:37 pm

The library, radio and TV. All forms of media contain massive amounts of free music. There's internet radio as well, ever heard of Pandora?

Having Pandora in my truck is any different then my iPod how?

Oh and all music becomes public domain after a period of time. That period of time is a completely arbitrary time frame, and the laws of which were written a very long time ago.


And really, how greedy. All the fuss about royalties, and how many are upset about music programs being cut in public schools? Which do you think will effect the future of music more?
Last edited by YamahaPlayer on Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
YamahaPlayer
Posts: 537
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:23 am

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Postby YamahaPlayer » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:38 pm

deseipel wrote:The BMI/ASCAP fees aren't a joke, I've run into many owners who tried not paying them (the fees vary on club capacity). The owners are required to pay those fees. It's all part of the law. They are large companies that can sue the pants off of small clubs.


Yes, no doubt, but I don't pay those fees. Nor am I responsible for them being paid.


But I make money off the music.


How's that any different?

We're just talking about listening to the music, and here it is perfectly fine for all of us to profit from others music. Seems a little odd. Doesn't Jazz Standards count as well, who's not playing those at a gig?

Return to “Drumming Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 164 guests