a beautiful project that needs funding

[sejuba]

i was able to check these guys out couple months ago while they were playing a few shows in my city. currently they are trying to fund the recording
of their final school project called The Transformation Suite. Its really beautiful and original. This is a young group comprised of extremely talented musicians
from Juilliard NY doing some great avant garde work. The drummer still got pimples in his face and he's a bad ass. please check out !

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/116 ... ?ref=email

[deseipel]

This is going to come off wrong, there's no way around it. But it's simply how I feel when I see something like this. I like the music i heard. I think they're probably all fabulous musicians. But have you seen the tuition for Julliard? It's like 50k a year. Maybe they're all on scholarships though. I doubt it. I think they could all probably cough up 1100 dollars if they really wanted to produce an album for 10k. So this project probably isn't out of need. Hell, you'd think Julliard would cough up the cash considering they've bilked these kids for a total of about 1 MILLION dollars (if on average, each member is a 2nd yr student: 9 members x 50,000 x2 yrs). So, this isn't about money. All that aside, this grouped toured. Who footed that bill? Did they put on free concerts? Doubt it. So why would a group that doesn't need the money and their school, who can clearly afford to put them on tour, want a measly 10k to produce an album? Two-part answer: it satisfies the artists' desires to produce their album and it serves as PR for Julliard. Or that's how I see it. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. EXCEPT the fact that they're trying come off like they need the money and disguising good music as a vehicle for social change. In other words, its apparently not good enough that the music is great, they have to elevate it and hype it as a cause. Can't the music stand by itself? I'm just tired of spin. What's wrong with saying, " hey, we have some good music here and we'd like fans to be a part of that process by donating. We'll put out the album regardless, but if you want to be a part of it, donate".

Like I said, this will come off really wrong. And I liked what I heard, just feel like they're spinning it into something it's not and taking money where it's not needed. I'm probably way off base. I hope I am.

[drum6282]

This is going to come off wrong, there's no way around it. But it's simply how I feel when I see something like this. I like the music i heard. I think they're probably all fabulous musicians. But have you seen the tuition for Julliard? It's like 50k a year. Maybe they're all on scholarships though. I doubt it. I think they could all probably cough up 1100 dollars if they really wanted to produce an album for 10k. So this project probably isn't out of need. Hell, you'd think Julliard would cough up the cash considering they've bilked these kids for a total of about 1 MILLION dollars (if on average, each member is a 2nd yr student: 9 members x 50,000 x2 yrs). So, this isn't about money. All that aside, this grouped toured. Who footed that bill? Did they put on free concerts? Doubt it. So why would a group that doesn't need the money and their school, who can clearly afford to put them on tour, want a measly 10k to produce an album? Two-part answer: it satisfies the artists' desires to produce their album and it serves as PR for Julliard. Or that's how I see it. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. EXCEPT the fact that they're trying come off like they need the money and disguising good music as a vehicle for social change. In other words, its apparently not good enough that the music is great, they have to elevate it and hype it as a cause. Can't the music stand by itself? I'm just tired of spin. What's wrong with saying, " hey, we have some good music here and we'd like fans to be a part of that process by donating. We'll put out the album regardless, but if you want to be a part of it, donate".

Like I said, this will come off really wrong. And I liked what I heard, just feel like they're spinning it into something it's not and taking money where it's not needed. I'm probably way off base. I hope I am.

I understand what you're saying, but I doubt they have money lying around to pay for a recording. My bet is that they have student loans and scholarships paying for their tuition/living expenses - maybe some of the "living expenses" was used to help fund their tour...I don't know - but I don't think it should be assumed that because these musicians are students of Julliard, that they have money lying around to record.

They should've found a way to record one of their live shows and use that as promotion - most bands should do that. I don't understand why bands these days insist on recording 10 song albums and sell them at their shows - waste of money IMO. It is a source of promotion, but scale back - 2-3 song recordings at a time at a small studio can go a long way if the band is good and serious. I find it hard to donate, not for your reasons stated above, but because no one buys music anymore. It's unfortunate music has become so devalued these days.

[Jean-Paul]

I find it hard to donate, not for your reasons stated above, but because no one buys music anymore. It's unfortunate music has become so devalued these days.

I personally disagree, I still buy music but I just don't like the money begging thing.

This makes more sense to me;

Can't the music stand by itself? I'm just tired of spin. What's wrong with saying, " hey, we have some good music here and we'd like fans to be a part of that process by donating. We'll put out the album regardless, but if you want to be a part of it, donate".

And if I hear the album and dig it, I will buy it. That's how they can have a return of investment. Stick your neck out, that what's business is all about. And for us it's fair to buy the album from a website instead of downloading music from your best pal's harddrive. Music is not devalued, unfortunately a lot of people are devalued in their common standards and values. No offense.

I edit my post because I forgot to say that I dig the music!

[sejuba]

Deseipel, no offense taken but I must clarify a few points. i had never heard of these guys before until the concerts. i got to know Tony, the dude who plays baritone sax in this band. That being said, all concerts were FREE.
They also did a series of FREE workshops at our state university as well as visiting poor cities and spending time with the local communities (hey, by poor I mean 3rd world poor). This piece they are tying to record is at least 1 hour long and is quite complex, i might add. I'm telling you man, some of these guys are VERY YOUNG. I honestly can't say if they are rich or not, and I don't care either. My opinion is simple: if you spend A LOT of time developing, creating,perfecting something worthwile for other people to enjoy and appreciate, than it just makes sense you should get paid. How you get the money is not really the question. Screw piracy, support GREAT and HONEST music. Its not about helping America's economy, its about the music. That being said though, I sincerely understand where you were coming from, and to a certain extent, you're right.

[deseipel]

Deseipel, no offense taken but I must clarify a few points. i had never heard of these guys before until the concerts. i got to know Tony, the dude who plays baritone sax in this band. That being said, all concerts were FREE.
They also did a series of FREE workshops at our state university as well as visiting poor cities and spending time with the local communities (hey, by poor I mean 3rd world poor). This piece they are tying to record is at least 1 hour long and is quite complex, i might add. I'm telling you man, some of these guys are VERY YOUNG. I honestly can't say if they are rich or not, and I don't care either. My opinion is simple: if you spend A LOT of time developing, creating,perfecting something worthwile for other people to enjoy and appreciate, than it just makes sense you should get paid. How you get the money is not really the question. Screw piracy, support GREAT and HONEST music. Its not about helping America's economy, its about the music. That being said though, I sincerely understand where you were coming from, and to a certain extent, you're right.

Regarding the free concerts, a couple of thoughts: 1) I traveled in a Jazz band in college and I wasn't paid either. But that's because it was a school-sponsored thing. And if I had to guess, that's what their tour was, which leads me to 2) the whole traveling to other colleges and educating poor communities sounds the like requirements of a NEA grant or something. Could be. I wonder if Julliard recieved some grant and then approached a student to write a piece, put a group together, tour, fullfill the grant requirements, etc. Nothing wrong with it, perfectly ok with me. go4it.

I hear what you're saying.


But their project isn't about getting paid, it's about producing an album. That doesn't mean they'll be paid for it. If the album sells, sure they might make a few bucks. But maybe not; for a couple reasons I'll try to explain.
1. If this whole piece was commissioned to fullfill the requirements of an NEA grant and the promotion/marketing was handled by Julliard, it wouldn't surprise me if the profits made from sale of the album are either 1) questionable, because you typically can't profit from the works generated from a grant (I might be wrong, but it sounds right)

2) I could see Julliard taking a huge chunk of the profits since their name is all over it and they probably funded the tour.


I need to digress and stay positive here though, anything I've written here is pure speculation and doesn't really help.

[drum6282]

I find it hard to donate, not for your reasons stated above, but because no one buys music anymore. It's unfortunate music has become so devalued these days.

I personally disagree, I still buy music but I just don't like the money begging thing.

This makes more sense to me;

Can't the music stand by itself? I'm just tired of spin. What's wrong with saying, " hey, we have some good music here and we'd like fans to be a part of that process by donating. We'll put out the album regardless, but if you want to be a part of it, donate".

And if I hear the album and dig it, I will buy it. That's how they can have a return of investment. Stick your neck out, that what's business is all about. And for us it's fair to buy the album from a website instead of downloading music from your best pal's harddrive. Music is not devalued, unfortunately a lot of people are devalued in their common standards and values. No offense.

I edit my post because I forgot to say that I dig the music!

I guess I should've phrased it differently - instead of saying no one buys music anymore, I should say MOST people don't buy music or expect to pay very little for it - bands resort to giving away music - this all devalues music and feeds the expectation of getting something for nothing.

For the record, I buy all of my music - but, I also respect the music - most of us here probably fall into this category, but we are a very small percentage compared to people listening to music and downloading music for free.

[drum6282]

I find it hard to donate, not for your reasons stated above, but because no one buys music anymore. It's unfortunate music has become so devalued these days.

I personally disagree, I still buy music but I just don't like the money begging thing.

This makes more sense to me;

Can't the music stand by itself? I'm just tired of spin. What's wrong with saying, " hey, we have some good music here and we'd like fans to be a part of that process by donating. We'll put out the album regardless, but if you want to be a part of it, donate".

And if I hear the album and dig it, I will buy it. That's how they can have a return of investment. Stick your neck out, that what's business is all about. And for us it's fair to buy the album from a website instead of downloading music from your best pal's harddrive. Music is not devalued, unfortunately a lot of people are devalued in their common standards and values. No offense.

I edit my post because I forgot to say that I dig the music!

I guess I should've phrased it differently - instead of saying no one buys music anymore, I should say MOST people don't buy music or expect to pay very little for it - bands resort to giving away music - this all devalues music and feeds the expectation of getting something for nothing.

For the record, I buy all of my music - but, I also respect the music - most of us here probably fall into this category, but we are a very small percentage compared to people listening to music and downloading music for free.

[DSOP]

With over three decades of professional experience, Neil Peart has seen the recording industry evolve
from format to format. But what does he think about the changes in the music industry, particularly in the
various modes of delivering music to the masses?

"I know that the mechanism that brought us up doesn't exist anymore," he says. "For instance, a perfect
example of how reversed it is, in those days we made no money touring for a long time, even into the
successful years. You counted on record sales and songwriting to make your living. And touring was a way
to publicize that. Suddenly, in the last 10, 15 years all that turned around and our income is entirely from
touring, and recording is an indulgence. In a band like Rush, no one's going to pay us
to make a record. It's going to be an indulgence. Even Snakes and Arrows basically paid for
itself and that's it, and if we want to make a living beyond that we have to go on the road and tour."