Practice routine stuff and groove insights.

[Josiah]

As are you Lucas!

If people don't like my opinion, then formulate an opposing argument using logical reasoning. I don't believe anyone in any position of authority should ever tell a student - "In the real world, no one is keeping track." That's flat out wrong.

Again, I'm not discrediting Gadd for any of his playing. I'm simply stating, you can't compare a given persons career in an industry from 40 years ago today.

You´re taking that out of context... That was about your short term goals for your practicing time... No one keep track of the hours you´re hitting the shed, that should be your business.

I agree. I don't think anyone should measure their progress by time spent working on it, but by the playing results. There is a place where reality meets the road.

You need to learn X songs by friday for an audition, or sight read down some charts for some gig... you better have that skill set in your box.

By that end, nobody cares if you even went to school to play music. I've never been asked to show my degree for any audition. I have been asked to learn songs on the spot though.

[Jim Richman]

As are you Lucas!

If people don't like my opinion, then formulate an opposing argument using logical reasoning. I don't believe anyone in any position of authority should ever tell a student - "In the real world, no one is keeping track." That's flat out wrong.

Again, I'm not discrediting Gadd for any of his playing. I'm simply stating, you can't compare a given persons career in an industry from 40 years ago today.

You´re taking that out of context... That was about your short term goals for your practicing time... No one keep track of the hours you´re hitting the shed, that should be your business.

I agree. I don't think anyone should measure their progress by time spent working on it, but by the playing results. There is a place where reality meets the road.

You need to learn X songs by friday for an audition, or sight read down some charts for some gig... you better have that skill set in your box.

By that end, nobody cares if you even went to school to play music. I've never been asked to show my degree for any audition. I have been asked to learn songs on the spot though.

Did anyone ask you how much you practiced for your audition?

[samnmax203]

If people don't like my opinion, then formulate an opposing argument using logical reasoning.

[Josiah]

Did anyone ask you how much you practiced for your audition?

The question, of "How fast can you learn this CD?" or "How fast can you learn these songs?" is extremely common for getting gigs.


Anyone who works as any type of on call musician gets that a LOT. Fill in spots, last minute changes, etc

[Lucas Ives]

Josiah,

It's not the ideas and discussion ... you frequently say things that make me think. That's rad.

It's the fact that your posts are riddled with constructions like this:

Here I'll be SUPER nice and clear, just for you.

Did you not read anything?

Anybody, ... knows that is totally bullshit.

That response is just absurd gibberish, but was entertaining to read. You're opinions are completely invalid

.. which is why I think you rub a lot of folks the wrong way.

I now return you all to your regularly scheduled topic.

[Jim Richman]

Did anyone ask you how much you practiced for your audition?

The question, of "How fast can you learn this CD?" or "How fast can you learn these songs?" is extremely common for getting gigs.


Anyone who works as any type of on call musician gets that a LOT. Fill in spots, last minute changes, etc

I take that as a no. Did they ask you if you practiced 8 hours a day, or just listened to the songs on the car ride up?

[Julián Fernández]

[samnmax203]

Though I have to greatly disagree with anything referencing a persons "amount" of hiring or work they accomplished. Times have changed drastically, the days of session cats are long over.

No no no, why would anyone want to reference a person's body of work? I mean it's not like a DISCOGRAPHY- showing HOW MANY DIVERSE ARTISTS (specifically well known or respected) SAID PERSON HAS WORKED WITH IN THE STUDIO or a TOUR HISTORY- showing HOW MANY BANDS HAVE INCLUDED THIS PERSON IN THEIR LIVE SHOWS/TOURS/TV SPECIALS/FUNDRAISERS/BAR MITZVAHS/APPLEBEE'S OPENNINGS would have any impact on a player's status as hire-able. /sarcasm

Get real! Yes, knowing people helps a lot, but if you don't have the ability to bring it no one will hire you again. That being said, if you haven't already proven yourself in some professional settings, no one is going to hire you either. No job experience = no job (95% of the time).

The days of session cats are not "long over" either, you're just using hyperbole for effect. The scene is no longer the same as before, but "session cats" have had to evolve in order to keep up. Ex- Russ Miller, Dave W, Virgil, Stanton Moore, Shawn Pelton, Matt Chamberlain, and many more have all been quoted as needing to setup a home studio for digital transfer of sound files for sessions.

Gadd isn't really hired that much. At all. Somebody list the last records he's done in the last 5 years. It's a very small number. And nothing compared to the 70's. You simply can not compare a career (in any industry) from 40 years ago to today. That's just nonsense and stupid.

2011 Kate Bush Director's Cut
2011 Kate Bush 50 Words For Snow
2011 Cinque Catch a Corner
2011 Various Jazz For Japan
2011 The Gaddabouts The Gaddabouts
2011 Nils Landgren The Moon,the Stars and You

2010 Steve Gadd & Friends Live at Voce DELUXE
2010 Ratko Zjaca Continental Talk
2010 Tomo Fujita Pure
2010 Lesley Meguid The Truth About Love Songs
2010 Alain Clark Colorblind (Special Edition)
2010 Mika Yoshida Mikarimba
2010 Mika Yoshida Marimba Madness (DVD)
2009 L'Image 2.0
2009 Ratko Zjaca Continental Talk
2009 Joss Stone Colour Me Free
2009 James Taylor Other Covers
2009 Harper Simon Harper Simon
2008 Randy Crawford & Joe Sample No Regrets
2008 James Taylor Covers
2008 Tracy Chapman Our Bright Future
2008 Manhattan Jazz Quintet V.S.O.P.
2008 Michel Petrucciani Non Stop Travels (DVD)
2008 David Sanborn Here & Gone
2008 Stuff Live At Montreux 1976 (CD & DVD)
2008 Roman Klun Kingsway
2008 Jonatha Brooke The Works
2008 Tom Scott Cannon Reloaded
2007 John Tropea 10-The Time is Right
2007 Russ Miller Arrival
2007 Alain Clark Live it Out
2007 John Tropea Take Me Back to the Ol' School
2007 Various The Last Mimzy (Soundtrack)
2007 Art Garfunkel Some Enchanted Evening
2007 Michael Lee Hill Music From Here To Andromeda
2007 Joe Brucato Free
2007 Paul Simon The Essential Paul Simon (CD & DVD)
2007 Paul Simon Graceland (Special Edition: Bonus Tracks)
2007 Etta James Gold
2007 Art Garfunkle Some Enchanted Evening

And whytf can't you compare years? They do similar things in sports! Michael Jordan's game was/is compared day to day, week to week, month to month, and year to year. Why? BECAUSE HE'S ONE OF THE GREATEST IN THE GAME. Hence why we reference Gadd so much! What do you want to compare? Studio output? # of live shows? # of clinics? The guy is NOT hurting for work, let alone respect in the drum OR music community. Just because Vinnie isn't recording at this exact moment doesn't mean his phone isn't ringing (FYI, right now he's on tour with some guy named Sting...) Shit, Steve G is on tour with James Taylor for the next 5-6 months AND is recording 4+ albums in the same time frame; yea, he isn't staying busy at all.

Musicality, personality and playing are super important. But it's not the same working environment, or even playing environment.

Steve Gadd dings all three of those. A studio (be it a huge one, tiny one, mobile, or home) is still a studio with its inherent challenges, and a stage is still a stage.

More players are getting better, faster then ever before.

To throw it back on you Josiah- what is your measurement criteria for "better" and what reference point for speed are you comparing it to? The proliferation of the internet? I'm sure there was a similar bump when Weckl's DCI vid came out in the 80s. Technology allows for easier dissemination of information. It's not that people are popping out of the womb doing a ratamacue on the doctor's face, it's that the info that was not available for most is now highly accessible.

Unfortunately the truth seems to come down to, who you know. Nothing more or less. You can have the greatest skill in the world, you aren't cracking the LA session scene. Take a gander through the last few years of Modern Drummer mags, MOST of the cover (and other) articles are for drummers with successful bands, not because they are playing on a 250 albums that year.

Wow, you must really limit yourself with this type of logic. Why do people fly over half the country to goto Julliard in NYC? the connections? No, they go to learn. To continue to put in all those hours of practice and sweat to get ready for the opportunity to play. If it was all about who you know then the Kardashians would be today's fucking Partridge family.

For the MD comment- You like to portray yourself as a keen individual, yet you can't see the business move in trying to put some of the more highly visible drummers on the front of a magazine? When I started drums I had no clue who Dave Weckl was, but he was on the cover of my first issue; read that thing top to bottom and was floored. It had an article about a new project for some guy named Mike Portnoy, went out and bought the cd- never heard anyone play notes that fast, it was awesome. All I cared about was when Carter Beauford showed up on the cover a few months later, but damn it if I didn't read EVERY article and issue because I found new stuff every time.

I tell students now, you want to make a living playing drums? You better be good at everything. And fast. Because someone else is out there trying to do exactly what you do, and they can do it better.

Using your own logic here- why should they bother to be good at everything? The studio scene is long dead and you have to know somebody to get anywhere, it doesn't matter about talent.

Also, don't you think your student should specialize in what they want to play? Why be good in everything if you can be amazing at Latin Jazz? It hasn't hurt 'El Negro.'

Previous quote- "If you can accomplish what you want/need in 1 hour that's fine. If it takes you 8 hours, that's fine too. In the real world, no one is keeping track. "

That is so totally inaccurate to real life. And so sad someone in a position of influence would propagate such an attitude....

You don't get the point of this at all do you? The point isn't to worry about how long it took, it's that you put in the time (effort) to get it done! No one in the real world cares at all how long Josiah sat and practiced yesterday. I'm sure James Taylor didn't have a checklist this month waiting for Steve Gadd: "Steve, how long on your flam taps today? Inverted paradiddles? Double strokes? Only 5 minutes? Yeeeaaaaaahhh, I'm gonna need you to come in on Saturday, mmmkkk?"

(sigh) yes in the real world no one will wait for you while the red light is on, but that's why you get the stuff done during practice! Everyone doesn't get something right away at some point and you have to work hard to finally get it. You're a teacher- Shame on you that you would propagate work time as failure onto your students.

*I'm all for grooving to a click. The metronome is the master, all notes should always be in time. But the fact of the matter is "human groove" is a lot less important now a days. Not an excuse, but just the reality that going into a session situation, your playing is 90% of the time going to be sampled, quantized and spliced all over. Matt Chamberlin talked about this in his last MD cover interview, I believe actually quoted as saying he had flicked a piece of paper in front of a mic to be used a snare sample.

Human groove is not a lot less important these days, it just depends on who is a part of what you listen to. Most young producers don't understand the possibilities of "human feel" because they never played an instrument except for a sequencer. And if you can make that hot beat by tippy tap tapping on a button so it sounds like the last POS, why the hell would you want to try anything else? It's certainly not for "the art." It seems as if their is a movement towards a more organic feel/sound.EX- J Dilla, favored hip-hop producer added that "human" factor to his production. A guy on a box wanted to emulate a drummer and now drummers and NPC players alike are trying to sound like him!

You're taking MC's words out of context again. This is the guy that has recorded cardboard boxes, desks, trash cans, rain drops, and many more things to use in his sonic palette.

Music, and Drumming, should not be treated any different then any other professional line of work or study. Nobody is telling future Doctors "don't worry if it takes you 8 hours what it takes another person 1 hour, in the real world nobody is counting" ... because nobody is going to hire you...

It depends if you're viewing music as art or academia then. There's work involved in both views, but with academia you're focusing more on the technique than the actual outcome (in most instances). As far as your doctor analogy- when they are LEARNING they can take as long as the individual needs. The test that allows them to start interning/practice doesn't have a "time used to study" modifier; it simply shows whether someone understands the material or not. There's also a shit ton of information to digest, so I'm sure Professors are telling their students to take it in as they can.

[bclarkio]

[deseipel]

the point of the post, I believe, was to say that it's not the amount of time you put in, it's the time it takes you to reach your destination. There's a illusion that the more time you put in, the better you'll be and that's wrong. Someone who gets right on the freeway will get to work faster, but the guy who takes the scenic route will have a better appreciation for the view along the way. So what's better? Depends who they work for.

Learning to read at age 3 doesn't mean you'll be Einstein either. It just means you can read at age 3. People make the mistake that learning quickly means you will exponentially learn other things quickly as well and that's just not the case, imo. Additionally, I don't think learning quickly means you'll apply what you've learned well either.

But I agree that in the LONG TERM, the guys who know their stuff will get the gig, but more often than not, it's a result of who they know, not their ability (to an extent). But it's also the rep you build for yourself.

I once got a call and a set list on Wednesday and did a gig on a Saturday night, where I also had to play to a backing track. I learned the tunes and pulled it off. But it was a gig I got because I knew the normal drummer and he knew I could do it. So it's a combination of skills and networking.

bottom line: set specific goals and work towards them, not an amount of time. Long term career goals are a diff topic.