Check out the track I recorded recently!

[thewikiman]

and I'm not pissed off because more people aren't bashing this, I find it interesting that some people haven't responded. It's easy to tear apart drumbaby549 on youtube (he doesn't exist) but guys won't say anything to a member and certainly not face to face. I find that interesting. They're either being nice or cowards.

bstocky this is surely all about human communication. Being 'nice' is a perfectly good option! The idea of developing as a drummer, getting feedback, the tough crowd being beneficial - all of that stuff is valid, but so is looking after people, being a human first and a drummer second.

There's a middle-ground between 'everyone gets a trophy' and 'shitting all over people you know look up to you'. I think speculating about Rodge and Steve's motivations is a risky business, but if I had to speculate, I'd say that they didn't want to do the 'everyone gets a trophy' thing and just post a weak 'good job!' but nor did they want to dissect and criticise the playing any further in what is already a fairly brutal thread. That isn't cowardice - and sure it's interesting but it's not THAT interesting. It's just being considerate. HoD is not some wise institution with some kind of moral DUTY to say the tough things no one wants to hear - it's a bunch of people on the internet, some with more influence than others.

Part of what makes a really good comedian is that their targets are upwards. They tackle people in positions of power. The less good comedians go after people below them on the food chain, and lose points accordingly. For me, Steve saying about, I dunno, Lang or someone, is okay because Lang is more than set, is obviously gifted and successful, and won't care one way or the other. Steve jumping into this thread (which has on occasion felt like it has a pack mentality) about an up and coming drummer who he's hung out with, and tearing them apart, is NOT the same thing. That's not cowardice, or some fascinating dichotomy, that's just being a empathetic human being and being aware of his position of influence on this board.

p.s For what it's worth (and it's not worth much as I am not half the player or indeed forum-poster of 99% of people on here) I like bstocky's posts the rest of the time, and Willy, the 32nd note roll with the rimshots didn't sound inappropriate to me, I thought it sounded great!

[robhaerr]

Willy...

I like that you did your thing on this tune. You apparently played like you wanted to play the tune...awesome.

We all want to play like someone else. Keep searching for "you"...and if that gets you the gig, rock it up...if not, keep finding what you need. The criticiscm here will help, but don't allow it to make you freeze-up.

I didn't like the song...but I liked what you put to under it...it wasn't cliche. I buy records for an interesting drummer who let's it fly...because I don't/can't usually let it fly.

That's my one-listen critique...maybe I will have some time to put headphones on and listen closer later. Off to the day job because I didn't take more risk when I was your age. Keep going for it.

I will keep posting my little vids to the Weekend Chatty so Steve takes them down after the weekend. You have some valuable input to wade through.

Rob

[willyz]

Thanks again, to everyone that took the time to comment in this thread. All of it is helpful!

Rob- I guess this is a very "me" drum part, yes. That being said, I cycled through many a drum part for this tune Especially for what I call the verse- the bit with the toms involved in the groove and the snare rolls. I played around with a few different things and when I played the part on the recording Laura was like, "Yes! That's it!". She wanted movement and something 'nontraditional'. I suppose I was thinking about what Gavin would play because there's a mild 'progressive' hint to the tune.

I always strive to have a voice behind the instrument, but to me playing for the song and playing what is asked/required will always come first. If a voice shines through all that, well- that makes me happy.

Cheers, lads!

[Tombo 7/4]

This is obviously a rough mix demo. Some parts of the tune I like very much, others not.
Definitely something to do with that singer. Not sure the indie style is the best vehicle for her.

On the drumming: The few timing issues don't disrupt the aimed groove (although I would take notes of where and why they tend to happen); the track is absolutely not amateur sounding. My first approach would have been to play trashier, leaving my fancy stuff at the door. Doubles/ghosts don't have their place in that style IMO. But the essential for you is that she's happy and would rehire you if it takes off.

You chose to swim with the sharks instead of being the big fish in the aquarium and that is commendable.
I studied in NYC and contemplated "Make it there!". I didn’t have the “I wanna play jazz, go to New York and starve” attitude like many students have. Some struggling I saw was heartbreaking. I can't imagine what it is in LA.

From my experience (and my brother's who's a pro sax player in Montreal) and observation, the key in a big city is to be in a "clique" of talented and dedicated musicians of your generation (with potential MDs in the bunch) who throw work at each other. Those relations are most of the time developed during music school and some "smart" hang.

Are there still open auditions for touring bands of major artists in LA? Like Bieber, Groban, Timberlake, Mars, Swift, how do they recruit their backup bands nowadays?

P.S.: Now let Will alone and go bash my stuff, I'm a big boy.

[Steve Holmes]

Willy and I hung out a couple of weeks ago and he played it for me then. We had a discussion about it. There's been some good feedback in here and good discussion overall which I thought was cool.
My thing with this piece is I actually like the tune believe it or not. The first part is kind of catchy, to my ear. Sounds like Willy was given specific direction and tried to give them what they wanted under less than ideal circumstances. With better production the tune (and drums) would sound way better. Once again a good idea lost to poor execution. Overall I thought Willy did a good job considering where he is overall and where he's trying to get to. Plus other folks already mentioned things I was going to say.

I always make it a point to not post anything I wouldn't be comfortable saying to someone in real life. I'm happy to have a discussion with Marco about my leaving the Potato after two songs with Mike Keneally. Before him it was Toss, and Joe Travers, and Jason Smith, respectfully. I'm a huge Keneally fan and didn't like how Marco mixed with that band. I have high expectations for that band.

[willyz]

I'm going to start a new thread regarding the stuff that Tombo brought up (goals, 'making it', looking for work/auditions, etc) because I'd rather keep the discussion (if it's to continue) regarding the tune, the recording, and the specific feedback...

There is always the 'networking' side of things- sometimes who you know is all that matters, and sometimes a bunch of guys are already busy and being at the bottom of the social structure or being the underdog means that you may get a call if nobody else is available. Getting out and hanging is still important in big places like LA, NYC, or even Nashville. That being said- hanging can be expensive and difficult if you're my age in my position... more on this in the new thread.

[bstocky]

Stuff.

That's all I wanted to hear. People are here to have access to your thoughts and playing. If a member asks for criticism and you remain silent that doesn't help anyone. Thanks for clearing that up.

[sturla]

I heard the track when the thread first was put up, and thought a bit what I wanted to say, but felt I rather didn't say anything at first....
Since much of that is already now said, it is very much what I initally thought - the song turns out to be a bit of a mess and a production that I felt was the worst part. (Hey - I think even I could have mixed it better!)
I kinda liked the vocal and song though...and I would advice you to just keep at it, and do of course work more with her and try to just get better and better. I do think she really has some great potential. Thanks for putting it up though. I think we all can learn quite a bit from this.

The track as it is now sounds very unfinished, so it would be good to hear you put it up again if it is worked more upon. Maybe that will be better?

Even though you said that you are playing parts that the leader wants. In my experience, half of the "battle" in getting a song to work, is knowing when a leader think she knows best what drum parts it needs, and knowing that you can be confident enough in playing something a bit different that works way better for the song, than what the leader suggest you play.
A lot of the time when that happens, they have no idea if you even changed something from what they "thought they wanted". Funny thing that one.

It sure is a tough crowd in here and a tough crowd to please, but that is what I really like too. So much experience you guys have in here. If it was me getting this critic, I am sure it would made me evaluate the whole thing and I am sure it would be a positive thing. I hardly put up any more stuff I do in here anymore, or hardly get the time posting anything....but I really do enjoy getting in here and see what's happening.

[bclarkio]

I read some of the comments before I listened to the song, so I was wading through that while listening, and paying a lot more attention to the drums than I would normally.

Some of the changes made me feel uncomfortable, and I wasn't sure what to make of some of the drumming choices.

I was just starting to wonder how long the song was going to go on when I looked up and saw it was almost over; that was a nice surprise.

I don't listen to this kind of music, but after listening through, I realized I liked the song.

And, I realized I like the flavor of the drumming; it makes me think of other songs with drumming that excites me.

I think you should be excited about this, as a work in progress.

[willyz]

Thanks to all that have contributed to this thread- most of the comments have been useful and contructive.

This is indeed, a work in progress. I'm going to see about getting the song re-mixed (thanks Chris!) and will be easing into some heavier discussion with the band leader about the players, direction, and the what not as time goes by. We're working on an interesting new tune at the moment that is very different from this one- more of a loose reggae feel, ala the Police.

This is all I have playing-wise at the moment. I'm going to make the best of it.