Wood Hoops

[jean krupa]

I have learned wood hoops on toms and BASS DRUMS
decrease resonance. They deaden the sound and remove attack.

Think: Triangles are made of metal.....not wood.

Cymbals are made of metal.... not wood

Metal hoops on a BASS DRUM are the best thing you can
do for shell resonance. I can't theorize what wood rims
do for snare drums.

Metal rims on BASS DRUMS are a great way to increase
resonance and sound....Make sure you don't have rubber
buffers between rim and BD claw. You want the sound
to be enhanced by all components...head, shell, rim, claws, etc.

Don't take my word. Call Mark Ross....he is a drum maker and
knows what it takes to build a real drum.

[Old Pit Guy]

I'll go with the BD theory. Quite a few 80s imported sets came with metal BD hoops and sounded great. The old Tama Imperialstar kits used metal too.

Remembering this, when I bought an old Catalina Club as a beater kit I replaced the ratty maple wood hoops with black metal rims and it did liven up the 18" BD. It also looked better with silver sparkle than maple. Then came the black Gretsch logo head, Remo black reso heads on the toms ... an add-on 10" for 2-up ... What began as a junker ended up a borderline money pit.

[patdrums]

The science part of the above post may be correct (wood hoops decrease resonance/attack etc.) but if that's not the issue for you then it doesn't really matter.

Sometimes I don't WANT every drum I have to ring like a bell and decay for a half hour. To me, the sound is more important than the science. If the music I'm playing calls for a thick, punchy, warm tone then I don't care if the kit has 18 pounds of duct tape and hydraulic heads all over it. Whatever gives me the sound I need is what I want. Geberally speaking, I like as much resonance and attack as I can get but if a kit outfitted with wood hoops doesn't give me that, then I won't use it as my main kit.

I have one drum with wood hoops and it definitely has a specific sound and tone that none of my others have. And it works phenomenally well in the situations where I need that.
It's a basic 6.5 Hammered Bronze Supra with Yamaha wood hoops. It has a very thick, warm, woody (go figure!) tone that none of my other snares have. I'd love to hear and play a whole kit with wood hoops but the cost is to prohibitive for me to take a stab in the dark in the hopes that I'd really dig it. And knowing what I know, I don't think it would be the sound that I'd want to have for everything I play. But given what I've experienced on just the one drum I have, I think it would be a very cool option to have when I need it.

[YamahaPlayer]

Wood hoops don't decrease the amount of sound a drum makes. They change the frequencies and arguably add sustain. Though the type of wood and hoop would make a difference. Compared to say a die-cast rim, wood rims would make a substantial difference in the sound. Of course, it just depends what kind you want, sound that is.

I have learned wood hoops on toms and BASS DRUMS
decrease resonance. They deaden the sound and remove attack.

Think: Triangles are made of metal.....not wood.

Cymbals are made of metal.... not wood

Metal hoops on a BASS DRUM are the best thing you can
do for shell resonance. I can't theorize what wood rims
do for snare drums.

Metal rims on BASS DRUMS are a great way to increase
resonance and sound....Make sure you don't have rubber
buffers between rim and BD claw. You want the sound
to be enhanced by all components...head, shell, rim, claws, etc.

Don't take my word. Call Mark Ross....he is a drum maker and
knows what it takes to build a real drum.

As opposed to a fake drum?

I'd have to disagree with this post. It's contrary to the entire 'Suspension' theory, and also blown away by the fact that metal is heavy, weight dampens the drum. That can be easily seen by trying different rims, die-cast being the heaviest vs aluminum rims which are the lightest metal rims out, there is a noticeable difference in sound and length of sustain. Heaviest -> Lightest.

Hardware, Rims, etc change the frequency of the overtones without a doubt. But metal does not cause a drum to have MORE sound. It's less sound, depending on the weight and player. A different sound. Metal, and different metals, resonate at different frequencies.

The most sound you can get out of a drum, is where the drum has the least amount of extraneous weight and shell material removed. IE, theoretically a drum with no rims or lugs would resonate the most - it has nothing restricting it's vibrations.

The proof is in acoustic guitars, the constant strive for more resonance, body and volume of sounds is constantly leading towards lighter construction (that weight thing again) and use of tone WOODS in body bracing.
And of course, high end drums that strive to reduce hardware weight and shell intrusion.

The common thing about wood rims is they soften the drum sound, which is fairly obvious considering you don't have (as much) material attached to the drum that vibrates at higher frequencies.

Metal rims weigh POUNDS. Pull your rims off some day and weigh them. Most the weight in a drum set comes from the hardware, a good 75% of it.

Adding metal to a drum sure as heck doesn't make it resonate more the weight difference alone is dampening the drum. It most definitely will change the pitch, frequencies and focus the sound - which if that's what you are looking for, rock on.

As an example, the PHX kit's have the new YESS system which uses a wood plate instead of a metal plate. Yamaha has tons of dollars into the R&D of these drums and they are by far superior sounding. In addition to using the lightweight aluminum rims, extremely low mass and single bolt lugs.
All of these changes are to remove as much weight and metal mass from the shell - and it works.

Besides, to use your own logic jean krupa, Marimba bars are made of WOOD... least the good ones that is. Piano's, Violins, Basses, Guitars, 95% of all acoustic instruments. The metal ones are made of brass, like cymbals, very few are made of steel.


BTW - No offense to Mr. Ross, but anyone using Keller shells ain't doing jack different from the 100's of other "custom" companies out there using them. Which while Keller is a great "base" for "custom" companies - they absolutely pale in comparison to shells built by companies using super high end woods and processes.

[jean krupa]

Have to disagree with all you said.

You say, Marimba bars are made of wood.

Your point? Is your point that they ring out or resonate.

OK.....a Vibraphone has metal bars.

We can all agree that a vibraphone sustains much longer.
In fact, Lionel Hampton was known to hit a note and go
have a cocktail as he waited for the sound to diminish enough
to hit the next note.....Concert percussionists never experience
that phenomenon with their 'wooden' marimba bars.

Again, there is a reason triangles and cymbals are made of metal
and not wood.

Also, wood does not vibrate or resonate....Feel the wood shell as you hit
the drum head. Does it vibrate like a cymbal or triangle...don't think so.

Call Mark at his toll free number and he'll give you the science behind all
this....don't take my word for it. You have to believe me, I am not the
expert you think I am.

Thin vs thick shells do not influence sustain as much as they influence
pitch and fundamentals. A 12 ply Sonor Sig with metal rims, according to you, would have a serious problem. But, they don't.

[Old Pit Guy]

You have to differentiate between wood hoops. There's the 19-32 ply sort that rest on the head collar, and then the over the collar type that require raising the lugs (like a bass drum). The latter are usually thin and lightweight. There's also a take on this type that rest on the collar and don't require raising the lugs. I'm not a huge fan of any of them on snare drums, but they're certainly not terrible. The cast aluminum Yamaha are hands down my favorite.

[Julián Fernández]

Frank, could you share a pic of the snare you´re talking about?
Thanks!

[john lamb]

I used to have a wood hoop snare that had an AWESOME cross stick sound. I now use Russ Miller's "Groove Wedge" for my 12" drum, and it makes a rediculously large difference on that drum, and a moderately large on 14"ers.

To me, the wood hoops are like the opposite on cast rims. Whereas cast rims makes things sharper and punchier, wood hoops makes things softer and warmer.

[Todd Sucherman]

Frank--

Check out Pete Stanbridge's drums. He's an utter genius and one of the nicest and most knowledgeable guys on the planet. His drums are astounding and his hoops are off the charts. I own 7 of his drums. Stradivarius quality.

http://www.stanbridgedrums.com/Welcome.html

Todd

[Matus]

Holy drum porn Batman!
http://www.stanbridgedrums.com/Erosion%20Drum.html