Seeking Justice for Musicians in Jazz Clubs

[DSOP]

Nat Hentoff on New York Local 802's efforts to improve benefits for jazz musicians

http://www.jazztimes.com/articles/27873-seeking-justice-for-musicians-in-jazz-clubs

"Busboys, who also should be paid better, make more money than most jazz musicians."

[Josiah]

I hate propaganda - and that is blatantly propaganda nonsense. Hollow rhetoric with not a single substantiated piece of information.

Example - "Busboys, who also should be paid better, make more money than most jazz musicians." - According to who or what?!

[DSOP]

According to who or what?!

Todd Bryant Weeks, Jazz Business Representative of Local 802 and author of the first comprehensive biography of Oran “Hot Lips” Page, provides the hard truth that hit this jazz fan when I began writing from New York. “The vast majority of sidemen who appear in NYC jazz clubs,” says Weeks, “have no protections, no pension, no health insurance, no social security and receive substandard wages. Busboys, who also should be paid better, make more money than most jazz musicians.”

[MRhet]

I hate propaganda - and that is blatantly propaganda nonsense. Hollow rhetoric with not a single substantiated piece of information.

Example - "Busboys, who also should be paid better, make more money than most jazz musicians." - According to who or what?!

Even if it is hyperbolic, I doubt it is far from the truth.

[Riddim]

I hate propaganda - and that is blatantly propaganda nonsense. Hollow rhetoric with not a single substantiated piece of information.

Example - "Busboys, who also should be paid better, make more money than most jazz musicians." - According to who or what?!

It would be nice if he offered numbers; the feedback I get from my friends there who are not names tends to support this. And even if you are known, if you gig locally, it's for peanuts.

[DSOP]

I posted the link to the article to enourage everyone to read it. This is about musicians trying to help musicians. Don't focus on one tiny statement. Everyone knows musicians are underpaid (when they're paid at all). The situation has gotten far worse over the years. Musicians need to help each other or it will get much worse even sooner. At least these guys in New York are trying to enact change.

[circh bustom]

The article just seems to talk in circles. While of course, as a working musician I would never turn down some extra coin for schlepping my equiptment and travel expenses, I'm not sure how good this would really be. From what i see online, a show at the Iridium would be $25-$40 to get in and a drink or two. How much, per admit, should a musician recieve in your opinion? Let's say 100 people show up. Say $40 a piece to get in would be $4000. Two drinks per person @ $7.50 per drink, average. That is another $600. Figuring the possibility of some food, and extra drinks the club would take in $5000. How much of that should go to the musicians? How much should go towards keeping the venue open? How much profit should the club owner expect to get out of that? If the venue was forced to give a certain amount, that extra cost would most likely be passed on the the audience. the cost of a show is already too high. I rarely get to see anyone "famous" anymore we just can't afford it as it is. If the cost went up even more, the frequency of my shows would decrease even more. Im sure I am not alone.
In fact, the few times I was able to go to a few clubs in Philly, Chris' and Zanzibar, there was NEVER anything close to 100 people. Same with Birdland in NYC. 23 people in the audience. At Zanzibar it was Weckl on a weekend. 60 people. Maybe 30 of which ordered food. It was $25 each plus a drink each. Zanzibar is now closed. Birdland was Andy Summers behind his Earth and Sky record. He had freakin Joel Taylor killin it playin all the shit Vinnie recorded. 23 people. Andy doesn't need the bread necessarilly, but what about his two sidemen? They should get paid. But why should the club necessarilly loose money? The club is providing a spot for you to play. If people don't want to see you or don't like what you do, that is not the club's fault.
If my numbers are wrong, please tell me. I am guesstimating, admittedly.

[DSOP]

I really don't understand. Why are musicians expected to work for free or next-to-nothing? Does the grocery store give you free milk because you're low on funds? If a club can only fit 100 people, then the admission would be that much higher. I don't think anyone is talking about necessarily high dollar amounts. I think a guarantee of somewhere around $150 per man per night is not unreasonable. Obviously, a band with a big draw could negotiate something more, be it a share of the door or whatever. But there needs to be a minimum.

I see the bigger problem being musicians themselves who perpuate this madness. If you can't afford to go to a show, you don't go. If you can't afford the admission, that's not the club's or band's fault. Save up for the shows you really want to see.

If a band doesn't draw, the club won't book them. If a club gets a reputation for booking quality acts, eventually people will be more inclined to take a chance on an act they've never heard/seen.

As long as musicians continue to settle for the status quo, it will only get worse.

[circh bustom]

I don't expect musicians to necessarily work for free but we aren't talking about roofing. Or surgery. It's playing music. It's really a hobby. $100-$150 a man a night should be fine in most situations. I'm not talking about big names. The ones that draw big can set their own price. Making a living playing music has always been a struggle. Jazz even more so.
What about the club owners though? What would be acceptable profit for them to not take a beating and then not seem like the bad guy at the same time?

[DSOP]

What about the club owners though? What would be acceptable profit for them to not take a beating and then not seem like the bad guy at the same time?

I don't have the answer to that. I think that is more a problem with the tax system and the cost of real estate. Maybe the Henry George approach would work. My pipe-dream is to open a small club someday. I do believe that if you consistently offer great music and great service, you can be successful. I think you also need to own the property.