House of Drumming.com

You are a beginner when you don't know enough to ask this type of question.

You are an intermediate when you begin ask such questions.

You are a pro when you are too busy to care.

A Beginner Beats the drums.

An Intermediate Plays the drums.

A Pro makes the drums Moan and Sigh.

Yes...pop on over to the weekend chatty and view the Gadd clip w/Grover. We can all play that tune on a gig. We can all play the notes. We all get it...but Gadd makes it moan. That's the difference. We can all play a Phil Rudd groove right? Phil made those tunes moan. He "owned" them. He was "inside" them.

Whatever level you are at technically, find the deepest part of the pocket and own it. I agree w/Gaddabout in that self-awareness is key, and here it is the ability to relax in the heat of the moment and play with dynamics that serve the song itself. Ultimately, it is always playing for the song, not the other drummers (musicians) in the crowd or to accomplish personal goals.

One of the interesting glitches I have felt/experienced watching the technical wizard drummers live (withhold names here) is sometimes hearing whatever they are currently practicing in the song as a way to express over understanding/serving the song. It is like hanging out with someone getting their counseling degree and throughout the evening at dinner they pepper in advice about marriage or ask how you are feeling about your kid's development...it just feels out of context and awkward. If this keeps up, the relationship is going to suffer and eventually I am going to avoid this person. They have a lot of good things to say and a strong vocabulary, but their timing and context is way off. It is about them exercising something they are learning and are using you in the process.

In a band context, all the experimenting is for the practice jams, and one of the problems I have experienced is being too focused on the gig and not simply jamming like you did as a kid when the other guys weren't as critical allowing you to go off and try things you would never do in a live setting. That stuff has to get out of you or it can carry into the live gig. Just my experience...

Pocketplayer wrote: In a band context, all the experimenting is for the practice jams, and one of the problems I have experienced is being too focused on the gig and not simply jamming like you did as a kid when the other guys weren't as critical allowing you to go off and try things you would never do in a live setting. That stuff has to get out of you or it can carry into the live gig. Just my experience...

Good posts, especially the beating

I agree with PP that you loose the reckless attitude you had when you just started. The knowlegde and responsibility to keep the band on track can work against you. That's why I am not happy with the steadiness I have reached. It sounds too perfect and almost boring. Now I let go and practice half of the time without click. At first I felt thrown back into the deep but I start to feel comfortable again. My whole approach is changing. A revamp of what I thought was intermediate but with the focus on fun. I feel creative. One of Steve Holmes' latest vids with bassdrum hihat and snare was an eye opener.

So to get that stuff out, I practice a couple of ideas until a certain comfort zone, not perfect yet, and then bring them to the gig. Once you throw them in (at an appropriate moment!) the development goes much faster too. And if you suck trying you bring it back to the drawing table after the gig and prepare it for the next one. As long as the gig is not suffering. My bandmates make mistakes too, it's almost human

Once you throw them in (at an appropriate moment!

And there's the rub! This is the difference between drummer X and drummer Y, if one was more effective than the other. When you think about it, there really is no excuse today to not record your gigs for evaluation purposes, especially if you are experimenting or "throwing in" a newly learned idea. Recording equipment is so affordable and the quality so good...it ain't like the old days w/t Panasonic tape recorder that got muted out with the high notes.

I always remember that Weckl MD article when he was gigging with Chick...after the gig when most were going out, Dave was in hotel room evaluating his performance. I'm not saying he did this after every gig (the article made it seem that way when I read it), but nonetheless, he wanted to know what he sounded like from the seats rather than the throne.

Yet, it isn't enough to just record yourself...the ability to evaluate yourself assumes the ability to understand good phrasing, subtle dynamics, and musical composition. Maybe here we come full circle to what we listen to and why we are attracted to specific artists.

You can't impart what you don't possess?

I also dug Captain Holmes' basic groove --bd, sn, hats...mix it up, shift your paradigm, move a cymbal. For me, the pivotal shift came when I stopped doing the obvious, practice a specific idea or learn a song. I was so focused on learning songs from other artists!

Instead, I played to the click (a musical cymbal beat or cowbell) and began creating with no goal in mind...just like when your neighbor or friend comes over, sees the kit and wants to play. This took me in directions never imagined. I played things and wondered if it was "OK" because these were phrasings other drummers played, not me. I found myself attracted to playing hi hat licks that came out of nowhere. I was confused. This was good. In short, I dared to create my own voice rather than hiding behind the phrasings of my heroes which were safe and secure, respected and useful.


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Pocketplayer wrote: I also dug Captain Holmes' basic groove --bd, sn, hats...mix it up, shift your paradigm, move a cymbal. For me, the pivotal shift came when I stopped doing the obvious, practice a specific idea or learn a song. I was so focused on learning songs from other artists!

Instead, I played to the click (a musical cymbal beat or cowbell) and began creating with no goal in mind...just like when your neighbor or friend comes over, sees the kit and wants to play. This took me in directions never imagined. I played things and wondered if it was "OK" because these were phrasings other drummers played, not me. I found myself attracted to playing hi hat licks that came out of nowhere. I was confused. This was good. In short, I dared to create my own voice rather than hiding behind the phrasings of my heroes which were safe and secure, respected and useful.
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Well put! Kinda like how Jim Keltner or Bernard Purdie-neither of whom have technical chops to speak of (!)-can create magic every time they sit down and play a "basic" groove.

You can play a single groove a thousand different ways, even if the distinctions are slight-if you do that and make it sound fresh and feel good, well, you qualify as a great drummer IMO.

Especially Keltner...I do not get this guy at all. Been listening to him as of late...Josie groove, stuff with Gary Wright...where does he come up with that stuff? Breaks all my drum logic laws. Great example bro.

Pocketplayer wrote:Especially Keltner...I do not get this guy at all. Been listening to him as of late...Josie groove, stuff with Gary Wright...where does he come up with that stuff? Breaks all my drum logic laws. Great example bro.

That's the key, man. Whether it's Vinnie playing some crazy left-hand lead fill between the hi-hats and snare, Keltner groovin' on Josie, or Gadd doing a ratamacue groove that feels SO GOOD:

You should always have this question: "Where the hell does he come up with that? What was he thinking?"

Ardent15 wrote:

Pocketplayer wrote:Especially Keltner...I do not get this guy at all. Been listening to him as of late...Josie groove, stuff with Gary Wright...where does he come up with that stuff? Breaks all my drum logic laws. Great example bro.

That's the key, man. Whether it's Vinnie playing some crazy left-hand lead fill between the hi-hats and snare, Keltner groovin' on Josie, or Gadd doing a ratamacue groove that feels SO GOOD:

You should always have this question: "Where the hell does he come up with that? What was he thinking?"

I think it's simple, it comes from emotions and feelings and that why they sound like THEM and not protools... technical facility is entirely different though.

gretsch-o-rama wrote: I think it's simple, it comes from emotions and feelings and that why they sound like THEM and not protools... technical facility is entirely different though.

I dunno. I swear Gadd does stuff he's never practiced in his life, but he has the ability to play whatever comes to mind with authority. Things that sound so simple are often some of the most complicated things I've ever tried to copy. Like feathering a swing stroke over or under a series a left-hand grace notes. Who does that? It's natural to use grace notes as filler. You don't play something else over the top or underneath. But Gadd, Keltner, all the guys who can play killer shuffles, they sneak that **** in and it makes my head spin trying to figure out what they're doing. Or what about using the left foot to sneak in a note you would normally play with the hi-hat? That's some sneaky, groovy **** right there that will drive a man mad if he doesn't see it demonstrated.

Gaddabout wrote:

gretsch-o-rama wrote: I think it's simple, it comes from emotions and feelings and that why they sound like THEM and not protools... technical facility is entirely different though.

I dunno. I swear Gadd does stuff he's never practiced in his life, but he has the ability to play whatever comes to mind with authority. Things that sound so simple are often some of the most complicated things I've ever tried to copy. Like feathering a swing stroke over or under a series a left-hand grace notes. Who does that? It's natural to use grace notes as filler. You don't play something else over the top or underneath. But Gadd, Keltner, all the guys who can play killer shuffles, they sneak that **** in and it makes my head spin trying to figure out what they're doing. Or what about using the left foot to sneak in a note you would normally play with the hi-hat? That's some sneaky, groovy **** right there that will drive a man mad if he doesn't see it demonstrated.

Yep. And then of course, Jeff Porcaro-who seemed to convince a lot of people that he didn't have "Chops"-had a badass right hand, a fast as hell right foot, and precision with ghost notes-all while he was grooving his butt off.

I think guys like Gadd, Porcaro, JR Robinson, Steve Ferrone play some of the most challenging stuff, at some level. It's not the speed or facility, it's the feel and the deceptive simplicity of it. Not many people can make you want to jump out of your chair and start dancing to an infectious beat.