House of Drumming.com

Josiah wrote:

moose wrote:I'd be massively grateful if you would stop calling a good friend of mine a "moron", you complete fucking tool.

Wow. Hypocrisy at it's finest. And your calling me a tool....

No, irony. And an irony clearly lost on you.

If it aint broke, dont break it. Or something like that. I have to agree it is not the smartest move to charge almost 1000$ for a pedal that doesnt use a drum key. If the aim is for the average working drummer, like the members here, well then unfortunately it is a bit moronic. I understand new things need to ruffle feathers before they take off, but this is too much. Drum keys are mostly universal, except for Sonor I believe. Josiah is correct. Mid song/set if something should happen to come loose, adjusting this pedal will be a nightmare. 60 seconds to fix something in front of an audience is an eternity. Fumbling around with different tools to make an adjustment makes you look like an idiot. Having a learning curve to learn how to use and adjust your pedal is ridiculous in my opinion. The hoop clamp? Its a gimmick. Trying so hard to be different. Ive been stomping on my DW pedals for years and maybe twice they slipped off the hoop. Maybe.
Maybe the designers of this aren't aiming at working drummers. Maybe they are aiming for your Gene Hoglan's and the like. Maybe they are aiming at new drummers who havnt used the relatively same designed pedals for 20+ years. Although with that price tag it seems unlikely. Now if they fail because of the design, we will hear more stories about how either the economy is bad and consumers are broke or that the drum world isn't open to new ideas. Maybe it is a design flaw that is keeping it from selling. Apparently working drummers here think it is not a good idea. We are open to new ideas. Isolated tom suspension, beater lifters, drum racks, esoteric drum head models, all manner of sticks and mallets. We are all open to new ideas that have form and function and make things a little easier. This seems like a high end "toy" to show your friends who "only" have iron Cobras or DW9000s. Remember the Sleischman pedal design? For the majority that dont it seemed like a great idea. Both beaters were in the middle so you sat directly in front of the kick drum without having to put it to the side. Will Calhoun even endorsed it for a minute. Where is it now? I remember 10 years ago a company tried to market a pedal that you stomped on with your heel, keeping the ball of your foot down. Remember that? Didnt think so. Is it because we are not open to new ideas? No, it's because the design sounded better at 2am after tons of coffee and pot than in the real world. What is the point of not using a drum key? How fast are we really going to be able to get on these pedals? That hoop clamp looks as if one good round of double kick and ya gotta reach down with your allen key set and get to work. Even the Jojo pedal has gotten bad reviews and a video with Jojo playing it and the pedal coming off the hoop was up on youtube for a bit as well. Apparently the tried and true will remain that way for a good long while.
And Moose, if your friends can't take the opinion of one drummer speaking his mind, they should maybe pack it up and do something else. Just sayin'.

Lot o folks around here got sand in their vaginas like permanently it seems !
Jeez I'm grateful for the post, you know some new info. Might well be too expensive and you might be happy with what you got but you don't have to bum out the rest of the world, with your worthless, irrelevant, cynical but oh so expert 2 cents. My appreciation of the drumming community comes from the generosity of folk, mixed in with some good vibes and discretion. That's kind of sacred, no ? May as well go make some more friends, because you're gonna lose some good ones around here ...

To the other folk ... deseipel especially, please don't stop posting new stuff or new finds

Haven't posted anything in awhile, just been lurking mostly with nothing informative or creative to say. Running and diet have taken center stage in my life for the past few months so drumming thought has been put on the back burner. That being said, this subject got me thinking about my personal experience with hex bolts.
I bought my Eames kit from a friend of mine some years ago (Beautiful kit in looks AND sound) and was a bit put off by the fact that the snare drum butt plate and throw off (both Pearl parts) had been retro-fitted or re-fitted with hex bolts instead of the standard drum key bolt. Same thing on the inside of each shell where a standard screw used to hold the outside lug casings and hardware on were replaced with hex bolts. I was like, "Um, why?". What I've discovered after owning these drums for 10'ish years is that after you change your snares, insert the strips or string and then tighten the hex bolts, they don't come loose. Ever. Same thing with the inside hex bolts. I've never had one come loose after years of hard touring and gigs. Then, I started thinking about the many hex bolts on my Yamaha and Pearl double pedals and how many times I've had to mess with those. The answer would be NEVER. Maybe it is the better mousetrap. Who knows? Also, I use a double pedal at every gig, rehearsal, performance, etc.. just in case my primary beater flies out or my main pedal has a meltdown while in the heat of battle. That way I can make it through the rest of the tune or set with my left foot if need be.
Just an observation and my take on the whole hex bolt design thing.

Josiah wrote:

DeeP_FRieD wrote:Here's what happened:
Those pedals look amazing, with immaculate machining. Packed with the hefty price, gear jealousy took hold and the negative comments ensued.

You could be more wrong, but it'd be difficult.

deseipel wrote:I didn't ask for anyone's opinion, I was just sharing what I thought was cool. You guys took it upon yourselves to tear down what I thought was cool, without any respect.

Respect for what? The pedal? It's a inert object that is supposed to help us do our jobs better right?

You didn't overtly ask for peoples opinions - but you said you were "considering" the purchase and obviously were looking for input.

It just seems like your just a touch too emotionally involved in a discussion about the physical properties and design of a piece of metals functionality. *shrug* Never seen someone get so upset about a person opinion on a piece of prototype gear. I mean, they even say flat out that they are working on the design and ceased production on the current one....

Respect for others. Courtesy for others and their opinion. You need to appreciate that when you call designers 'moronic' or whatever, you are saying that my post is moronic, by proxy. And that's insulting to me because you're basically telling me that I'm wrong for wanting it. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you were just reacting in your response. There are ways of presenting your opinion without alienating the opposite point of view. And that's the point.

Back to topic. The pedal looks to me like a copy from tricks pedal. Not a good copy honestly. And if you're interested in a direct drive pedal, this might be a better option.
http://www.trickdrums.com/pro-1-vbigfoot.html

A fellow drummer of mine has one. It plays very smoothly or lightly, to smooth to my opinion. So that's why I prefer my dw5000 pedal.

Rene

I've never seen heel less pedals.. Cool.. The Malleus ones look seriously heavy duty..
I'd buy them If I liked them.. And for you they look local.. IE: From Britain.. support local..

As far as all pedals being the same more or less.. I totally disagree. I've Used. Pearl, Dw, Yamaha, Taye and Tama.. They all feel different to me no matter how much I adjust them.. Even the difference from Iron Cobras to Speed Cobras is big..

As far a Hex nuts go.. I never adjust my pedal after is set up,.. all you need is a way to get it on the drum.. that's it.. That one look like it has some kind of docking system not shown..
Who knows. maybe there's a drum key with a hex arm on it. like Tama has..

Every pedal will feel different of course. But different is not good or bad. It just is different. Most the major brand pedals are relatively the same price.

I got to spend some time the other day with the Pearl Demon Drive... those are a sick pedal. Most interesting to me was they replaced the U joints with individual bearings for each axis. That's the kind of innovation I like to see.
The demon drives can be heeless, long board, short board, etc apparently about the most adjustable pedals on earth currently. Solid linkage, double chain, whatever.

And the double pedal set? My guy said he could do them for $350 in a month with christmas discounts.


But you take a look at these Malleus pedals and the drive shaft on these pedals uses the identical pivot point design as my 17 year old original DW5k's....

kinkymook wrote:I've never had one come loose after years of hard touring and gigs. Then, I started thinking about the many hex bolts on my Yamaha and Pearl double pedals and how many times I've had to mess with those. The answer would be NEVER. Maybe it is the better mousetrap. Who knows? Also, I use a double pedal at every gig, rehearsal, performance, etc.. just in case my primary beater flies out or my main pedal has a meltdown while in the heat of battle. That way I can make it through the rest of the tune or set with my left foot if need be. Just an observation and my take on the whole hex bolt design thing.

Except for one important fact. The only difference is the tool used to turn the bolt. Hex bolts don't use a different thread system... it's only the machine head that is changed.

Philips, Flathead, Hex, DrumKey, etc... it's only the head that accepts the tool. It's just a threaded bolt with a different head.

IE: There is no difference between a hex bolt and a drum key bolt, EXCEPT you have to use a hex wrench for 1 and your standard drum key for the other.

So your experience is simply that the bolts/screws haven't come loose. It has nothing at all to do with the head on it. You just got lucky.


I bring my double pedal with me for the same reasons, I've never had a failure that has resulted in needing to use the slave as the main.. but none the less. Shit comes loose, unless you locktite everything it's just a matter of time and odds. I have 3 drum keys at my kit. A loose one on a lanyard and two more that are velcro'd to various places around the kit. Stuff does come loose at times, sometimes I can get it, sometimes I have to wave my tech over... but it happens, it's part of the game. Like guitarist having backup strings and guitars.

It comes down to pretty simple economics though right?

If a product costs nearly twice as much as the same product, shouldn't it be doing twice as much? Or twice as better? Or at least some measurable percentage better?


You go to buy a car, one costs $25,000 and one costs $45,000. You expect some pretty significant differences in the more expensive one right?

You go look to buy a house, you expect the one that costs $200,000 to be a lot nicer then the one that costs $125,000 right?

Seems like this basic principle should apply to our pedals too.

Josiah wrote: There is no difference between a hex bolt and a drum key bolt, EXCEPT you have to use a hex wrench for 1 and your standard drum key for the other.

Actually, a hex or Allen bolt will have tighter tolerances resulting in a better fit between key and bolt, and more surface contact between tool and bolt. Some drum keys are better than others, but most of them have a lot of play. The bigger issue I see with using hex bolts is that they may or may not indicate metric or imperial size, and if you get the wrong one, you can strip the head. I would always opt for a square drum key bolt for any drum hardware.