House of Drumming.com

Absolutely. NOT everything nowadays is recorded to a computer or quantized but most of it is. If you can't play in time than practice, hit the button or hire someone who can.

and I'm not pissed off because more people aren't bashing this, I find it interesting that some people haven't responded. It's easy to tear apart drumbaby549 on youtube (he doesn't exist) but guys won't say anything to a member and certainly not face to face. I find that interesting. They're either being nice or cowards.

I quite liked the snare/Tom groove on the verses. Overall, it just didn't feel that great to me, which could have just as much to do with the other guys' playing as well. A lot of people never consider that it's EVERBODY'S responsibility to groove and play with good time. Yes, it's our main job, but it's part of everyone's job. I think that the singer should be very pleased with the band's playing, considering that you all worked pro bono.

Willy is probably the youngest dude hustlin round here. Most of us are 30-40+ and probably arent going to land a big name pop tour anytime soon. He has a shot. Constructive criticism whether good or bad will help. I dig the fact that a few guys had issues down to the second. Will will probably go back and listen to these sections with a more critical ear. Even if he disagrees with the criticism, some of it hopefully will seep in and help his next session. All that matters is that he learns from this one and make the next session better. I dont agree with the whole "everyone gets a trophy crap". If its good its good. if its not, then its not plain and simple. The track wasnt my cup of tea, and I explained what I thought of it, so no reason to reiterate. Im sure we all have a track(or 3) in our closets that we shudder when it comes on. I sometimes see things as "I got paid to make a mistake and learn something". Good luck Willyz, keep doin your thing. And keep asking for criticism.

circh bustom wrote:Im sure we all have a track(or 3) in our closets that we shudder when it comes on.

When I hear stuff I recorded in my 20s I want to put the barrel of a gun in my mouth. I can't believe ANYONE was willing to play with my sorry ass back then.

I have WAY worse stuff than Willy's track. I can remember hearing me play Hotel California when I was in high school and I was doing some kind of ghost note roll between every high-hat 16th note. Do you hear that in your head? That sounds terrible!
I thought it was the coolest thing ever, until I heard me playing it.

"As always, I'm open to and welcome your thoughts. Cheers!"

Some of us have given our thoughts. What are yours ?
As harsh as some of those comments might've been, there's always a lesson to be learned.
And that's the right attitude to have- always.

I actually listened to that damn song about 10x before I wrote anything just because
I feel its important to give feedback on things that are important to other people,
especially fellow drumming buds in a drum forum.

I also feel its important that you share this with the band. Obviously, not the
bashing part, but key areas we have pointed out where you think the band could benefit from. Its her band,
her decisions, but if she trusts you as a musician to play her music,
than why not discuss this stuff with her??

What do I think?

I think the biggest weaknesses are all aspects of the production and the arrangement of the tune. I thought we were going into the studio to record this track, instead, we were brought into a "soundproof" rehearsal room near downtown. It was not a studio, and we had six hours to get in, track, and get out. Obviously the drums were recorded first to a click (a bit faster of a tempo than we had rehearsed, not my first choice), and then after I left everyone apparently overdubbed over me. I'm not entirely sure that they continued to play to a click.

I don't know who the song was "mixed" by. It's not my money or my band so I don't really have a say in the matter, but I have brought up my concerns with the mix to the bandleader, and it's apparently the way it is to budgetary reasons. Had I been in charge, I would have not released this. It seems like little to no post production was done at all (on any of the tracks), and discussing drums specifically- they were the parts she wanted me to play. In fact, the snare roll which some commented "lost the song", she wanted to be longer. The drums are too quiet in the mix, the guitar is too loud, and the keyboard sounds are sprinkled with too much cheese.

I'm happy with the parts I recorded and feel that they were musical choices, tailored to what the songwriter wanted, although again- the mix and post is really what killed the track in the end.

Maybe it's wrong for me to not care as much (per say) as I'm used to getting paid and working with a bit more professionalism in both environment and writing, but this (after only a few months being back in LA) is the only thing I've got and (as mentioned before), Laura is talented. It may be worth sticking through for that reason alone. if I was being paid or investing my own money (which I don't have), then I'd probably let my producer hat be worn more often.

This topic is an example of what I think this board can be an excellent learning tool. If I were someone who was trying to 'make it', which I am not, then I would be posting stuff on here to the point of getting banned. I'd take this feedback to the bank, hide it under my pillow, stick it in a condom/swallow it/get it through customs.

I don't necessarily even mean by the literal feedback about notes, groove, per se-- I mean learning how to receive feedback as a whole. How to know what is legit and what is a case of someone spouting off after a bad day at work (not saying anyone is doing that, here).

I'm not old, but I started gigging when the internet was BBS. Back then, I could suck in anonymity. Nowadays, every a-hole with phone can diss me and have it live on... forever. I had a buddy who MD'd a show that brought in a sub trumpet player with literally an hour's notice-- they had to sight read the whole gig and it was an ass-kicker, but they are a great player and it was really great of them to do it on such incredibly short notice.

Guess what? Some douche with a phone (who undoubtedly is a musician with an ax to grind) ended up getting the trumpet player's name from someone at the theater, and goes and posts a freakin' Yelp review for the venue about how much the trumpet player sucked... and named him by name! He didn't even bother to dig deep enough to find out that the dude came in and subbed to save everyone's ass, while showing his own. So now when you Google this trumpet player's name, guess what happens: the Yelp review. Wonderful world!

I guess what I am getting at is that pretty much everyone, anywhere, can offer up an opinion and it is up to all of us to get some discerning, thick skin about it. Throw that tune on iTunes and every Travis Barker fan is going to rip it to shreds cause they don't get it. Throw it on here and at least something good can come out of it. Overall, I think that 95% of the feedback people give on this board is spot-on, even if the delivery isn't always tactful... but, that hits on my thick skin comment, I guess. I'll be honest-- I don't have it! Tactless comments tend to stick with me far after the one who offered them up has long forgot about my issues, but it's up to me to filter the info from the delivery.

I think this board is, in general, pretty darn good and fair, compared to the rest of the internet. I don't see people in here trolling and trying to tear people down; there may be some harsh critics that don't pull punches, but then again, the world's a mean place.

Perhaps it's not only about getting positive critique, but it is also a lesson in filtering criticism-- knowing who has a valid point and who has beef. Plus, I mean, throwing one's stuff up on a board where you have the potential to get feedback from guys like Steve, Billy Ward, Peter Erskine, Todd Sucherman, Rodge, and all of the other killer not-yet-name players... hell, even if I do get flamed, I'll take some critique from those guys if I have to take a ribbing from everyone else!

I hate critics, but I always appreciate critique.

Peace out, all-- I'm off to the Pearl forum to anonymously talk shit about jazz.

I understand bstocky's argument regarding quantising but I disagree with the notion of it. To me it's a tool of making music more appealing to the masses who are not appreciative of all the effort but into good, unquantised music, and the lack of effort some musicians actually put into the music the masses listen to. I used to fight battles with my guitarist, who happens to be our sound man, regarding to what extent the sound of our music should be processed. When I listen to Bowie's 'Man Who Sold The World' or ' (...) Ziggy Stardust' it sometimes strikes me how poor the timing and the execution of the drummer is but this, for me, is what makes the music human. An it wasn't underground music, by a longshot! I understand that as technology progresses, drummers get better and expectations rise something like that has to give way to greater pedantry regarding performance however I wouldn't split hairs over a cymbal accent a fraction of a fraction of a second behind '1'. Correct me if Im wrong, all feedback appreciated :D:D

As for Willy's statement that he played what the leader actually asked for, it's interesting where's the middle ground in that arrangement-related tug-of-war. I play in a band but we're much more democratic so the decisions as to what I, or anyone else, plays is well-balanced. I've never done any session work so can't share any personal experiences but in my opinion if the band-leader who is also the sponsor for the entire venture wanted him to play this and not that he did the right thing.

I'm very happy to be a member of this forum and I'd be very hesitant myself to post anything but whatever it'd be I know it would be feedback issued by people who 'know their shit well'. Hence I don't post here extremely frequently because I don't want to spam with my biased and unsubstantiated opinions, but I have already received help and feedback on HOD and I'm extremely grateful for this.

Peace!

I guess that above point reiterates the simple fact that I, too, am grateful to the feedback from such a high quality forum.

To condense my previously convoluted rant:

Being that anything we create and release artistically, nowadays, has the ability to be instantly scrutinized from all angles; therefore, I am grateful for a place that can actually provide useful, knows-their-shit feedback versus the self-indulgent, sometimes mean-spirited alternative.

Credit to Willyz for throwing it up on here-- I appreciate hearing it and I'm sure he'll take the constructive criticism to heart and be that much better than me, the next time I hear him!

electrizer wrote: I wouldn't split hairs over a cymbal accent a fraction of a fraction of a second behind '1'.

I actually dig it sometimes when I hear drummers hitting a tad bit behind the '1'... makes it seem fatter and more anticipated.