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robhaerr wrote:$500 for each band member= decent money

$500 for the whole band= the band is getting hosed, get someone else to negotiate the band compensation!

Or, find a band that doesn't low ball themselves and ruin the market.

Crappy DJs are making $1,000-2,000 or more.

Word. Great stuff, Rob!

Depends on the venue...

Small bars aren't shelling out $1,000 for anyone. DJ or otherwise.

YamahaPlayer wrote:Depends on the venue...

Small bars aren't shelling out $1,000 for anyone. DJ or otherwise.

Times are tough.

Here in Austin the difference between a Monday or Tuesday night and Friday and Saturday night is extreme- and even when the bars are actually making money you're lucky to get 10% and some tips. Then when you finish (or even before) the DJ starts playing.

Rob Ferrell wrote:

robhaerr wrote:$500 for each band member= decent money

$500 for the whole band= the band is getting hosed, get someone else to negotiate the band compensation!

Or, find a band that doesn't low ball themselves and ruin the market.

Crappy DJs are making $1,000-2,000 or more.

Word. Great stuff, Rob!

$500 for a whole band is decent bread in my book , depending on how many. I can only speak for the group I USED to play in which was a trio. Provided I'm not going to timbuk tu and will play all day. A wedding reception, playing for 2; 45 min or so performances? Dining segment and after the bridal/wedding party intros and before the DJ dance-a-thon. I don't depend on this for a living either or pay for gear. In todays funky climate? Low ball? The client sets the prices as to what they will pay or have for a budget. In some markets you will be fortunate to play at all!

G

robhaerr wrote:$500 for each band member= decent money

$500 for the whole band= the band is getting hosed, get someone else to negotiate the band compensation!

Or, find a band that doesn't low ball themselves and ruin the market.

Crappy DJs are making $1,000-2,000 or more.

IME, $500 for an average bar band is way above average in most locales...

YamahaPlayer wrote:Depends on the venue...

Small bars aren't shelling out $1,000 for anyone. DJ or otherwise.

Your mileage may vary...but this is our way of pricing the band, and seems to be fair for all involved...

We're old, so we have gotten picky about our gigs. We are only playing 2 "bar/restaurant type" places who pay us a percentage and we know we can pack the places...making $800-1,000 for the band on a good night. Other bars here in SoCal are paying ($300-400) for the bands...so we pass.

We have concentrated on filling our schedule with special events/weddings/city park concerts/corporate gigs, etc that want a quality/professional acting (well, sort of) band that will be good for the event. Those gigs pay from $1,000 for the band up to what-ever-their-budget allows. We are getting in the $2000 range regularly. Not to brag about it...but maybe this will help when you think about pricing the band.

We always ask what their budget allows before we give them a price so we do not leave money on the table. If they don't have a figure, we go to the high side of fair. We figure we are worth at least $50 and hour from the time we leave our house to the time we leave the gig...then round up. A wedding gig can be an 8-hour time commitment, plus driving time if you set-up before guests arrive. It's not about how long we play...it's about how much time we commit to their event.

The key for us is being flexible, understanding when we can get bigger bucks, or the need to take a gig for lower dollars. Every gig is negotiated to get a win-win situation for both the band and the event.

This band has been together for 24 years, so we have built up a nice reputation for fun music and personality while being easy to work with. The events know what they are getting and don't mind paying for it. We are not getting rich, but rather getting a fair wage for our work. I think we are on the low-end of this, actually...but we keep a good schedule for our lives with day jobs. Corporate event bands are getting in the $4,000-$10,000 range if you get in with the right agency and are very polished and want to travel a bit...but we book ourselves to stay in control of this "hobby that keeps us sane and gives us extra cash".

Plenty of bands around here are low-balling/selling themselves way too short...playing for less than minimum wage when it comes down to it. If you are a good band that provides a quality performance...treat it like a business and the extra money makes it worth it when the gig is on the shitty side. Many times at a wedding or funky fundraiser we look at each other..."remember, this is for 2 grand...let's just have fun"...it's all good at that point and enjoying each other's company..."it's all about the hang" many times!

You can see the types of gigs we are doing on the web site below, or on our Facebook site...lots of tentative dates not on there yet...
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Rave ... 238?ref=ts

It would be great if others chime in on how they negotiate for pay...It would help us all, whether you are a pro or a local band.

I also play with a pick-up trio just for fun...I don't even worry about getting paid for that one...usually very causal backyard party stuff that feels weird to even get paid. No rehearsals, wear what we want, see what happens attitude. Maybe play 3 or 4 times a year.

Latest video clip of the pick-up trio with my brother on guitar, school chum on bass...a Zoom Q3 HD clip...we call the band, "Ooly Coo"...our Dad's frat nick name...


Best of luck while trying to keep it fun!

Makes sense Rob, keep in mind you also live in one of the wealthiest areas in the world. (Assuming your location of SoCal is correct).

And for that area, I can see those prices for sure. Heck my house here is almost 4 times what my house there is, and I rent mine out there for nearly double my mortgage here... cost of living was a big factor in leaving So Cal.

It looks like you have a fantastic band! Great playing on your part as well!

YamahaPlayer wrote:Makes sense Rob, keep in mind you also live in one of the wealthiest areas in the world. (Assuming your location of SoCal is correct).

And for that area, I can see those prices for sure. Heck my house here is almost 4 times what my house there is, and I rent mine out there for nearly double my mortgage here... cost of living was a big factor in leaving So Cal.

It looks like you have a fantastic band! Great playing on your part as well!

Thanks...the trio is just for giggles, The Ravelers are for more serious situations if you can call them that. I should have said that Southern California does have a good supply of city-sponsored/corporate/special events for basically all different levels of bands to be involved in...as opposed to the more rural parts of the country/world. Heck, all of Southern Cal towns and cities are only separated by a sign...it's continuous like one big city with no land masses in between like in Texas or Oklahoma.

We are fortunate to live here (some would argue with that), really fortunate to be playing with this band for the fun/hang/extra dough factor...and I am in "the suburbs" about 50 miles east of Los Angeles...again, your mileage may vary.

Gig tomorrow night= Fundraiser for Catholic School dads, Fathers, Nuns....usually a fun night playing for Catholic functions. That subject is worth a whole thread...Catholic events. They do like to party.

When I started playing in clubs in the mid-80s it was $400 for a band. Now 25 years later, IF you get paid (no door) it's still $400. Like if inflation is inexistent for musicians .

Years ago, you HAD to go through a booking agency to play any clubs. You also had to go through a record company to release a record. These two entities, even though many of them were run by idiots, were the gatekeepers. There was a certain "standard" or "bar" that had to be met before you could be unleashed into the public.

These gatekeepers no longer exist. This can be a great thing, but it has made it harder for anyone with talent to rise above the din of mediocrity. You can longer focus just on your talent or on crafting music. You need to spend as much (or in many cases, MORE) time on marketing and YELLING to the world (via social media such as Facebook and YouTube) in order to convince people to lend their eyeballs and ears.

As for the club scene, all most of the club owners care about is how many people are in attendance. No one is listening to an act's music to see whether it's any good or not. The end result is that the only people who go out to see an act live are people who already know about them (as in "their friends", who will be there whether the band is any good or not).

It used to be that you could go to a club and be entertained by an act that you never heard of. And that act would play three sets, sometimes for a whole week. Now, bands are lucky if they get to play 20 minutes. Most musicians these days have no idea what it's like to play for four hours a night, seven days a week, with matinees on the weekend.

As for the money, with so many "musicians" (I use the term loosely; It's more appropriate to call them "instrument owners") willing to perform for free, or even PAY for the "privelege" (dying for adoration and spewing narcissism), the perceived value of music talent is negligible.

There ARE some clubs that will only book acts that meet certain criteria or have a certain sound (Hotel Café in Hollywood for instance), and those clubs do extremely well. I can't understand why more clubs don't have any standards. I'd be more inclined to take a chance if they did.