Phrasing/feel-a lightbulb moment for me

[Ardent15]

What makes drummers like Steve Gadd great? This question may seem absurd, but I'd argue that it is very relevant musically.

The key to drummers like Gadd, Jim Keltner, Jeff Porcaro, Vinnie, and other greats is their phrasing and feel, not their technique. Vinnie has far more "chops" than Keltner, for example, in terms of rudiments and speed, but Keltner is no less of a drummer because of that. It's how they use what they have.

This is where phrasing comes in. Plenty of drummers can play faster than Gadd, or have more "licks" than Gadd, but they can't cop Gadd's feel. Feel is related to phrasing. The more interesting the phrasing is, the better the feel, generally speaking. Some drummers can play 1000 licks, but they can only play each lick one way. Gadd may only have a handful of "licks", but he can play each of those licks 1000 (or more) different ways.

This is connected to music in this way: Depending on the musical context, having a ton of different ways to play the same beat or rudiment allows one to keep his/her options open, and apply what they know to that situation accordingly. The difference between a player and a musician is that a player thinks in terms like this:

Player: 'How can I fit my licks into this musical context?"

Whereas a musician thinks in terms like this

Musician: "What does this music call for? What DOESN'T it call for?"

That's another thing-music is dependent on contrasts, on tension and release, on PACING, on building up and coming down, and sometimes on the occasional "bomb" that is dropped (Vinnie is excellent at those! ) The more HOWS you have to play the WHATS, the more musically creative you'll be.

Ok, that's enough of my yammering. Where's the Weekend Chatty thread, Steve?

[renardvert]

This is a very interesting topic.

I've been practicing for a while along to my favorite groove drummers like Matt Chamberlain, Keith Carlock, Jeff Porcaro, Steve Gadd and others. While I don't think I'll get their feel exactly, by studying carefully what each of these gentlemen do in a groove situation, I think I'm getting near to the sound I wanna project and that makes me happy.

Phrasing may be a part of what makes these guys special, I think you're right on that part but I'm pretty sure that there are others aspect to consider as well such as breathing, grip, body mouvement (the dance?), humming drum beats and other stuff. This makes it a little more complicated and interesting to me. I've always been struck by the way my favorite drummers strike their drums and by the groove they thus create. I remember the first time I heard Matt Chamberlain, it was on the Brad Mehldau record Largo, on the piece When It Rains. When I heard that, that was it for me, I was completely addicted. The same when I heard a certain Oz Noy track back in 2004 (I think) and since then, Carlock's groove been hunting me.

I think groove practicing and research is very fun, I surely enjoy it a lot!!!

(BTW, Stanton Moore's book Groove Alchemy has some very interesting exercises and ideas on groove stuff)

[Gaddabout]

Just to be clear, Gadd has chops, they're entirely unique to him, and they're very challenging to reproduce (though many have tried). His hands are really, really good and his feet are skilled and powerful like a dancer. In fact, his feet are probably his real secret. Fantastic dexterity with both feet and endless creativity with his left-foot hi-hat.

Just because a drummer is nuanced doesn't mean there's a gross lack of skill there. I think we overemphasize that a bit too much around here.

[Ardent15]

Just to be clear, Gadd has chops, they're entirely unique to him, and they're very challenging to reproduce (though many have tried). His hands are really, really good and his feet are skilled and powerful like a dancer. In fact, his feet are probably his real secret. Fantastic dexterity with both feet and endless creativity with his left-foot hi-hat.

Just because a drummer is nuanced doesn't mean there's a gross lack of skill there. I think we overemphasize that a bit too much around here.

Not denying any of that. But it's his feel and phrasing (of his chops) that really set Gadd apart, not necessarily the chops themselves. But yeah, hard to compare him to other drummers.

And yeah, of course nuance and skill aren't correlated inversely necessarily. If that were the case, Vinnie wouldn't have much "skill".

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

It`s been practiced really well from a really deep place.

Steve completely owns every note he ever plays.

[renardvert]

One of my student once came to his lesson saying he wanted to learn that Toto song, Girl Goodbye. I had never heard it but I was amazed. Porcaro displays some kind of chops (or ability) in that one. Needless to say, we went through that song very slowly.

[Tom Reschke]

Groove and how you (YOU) do it is the same as the way that you speak. I'd like to be able to articulate as well as Hitchens, but that just will not happen. I've recently come to the mindset that I'll never be able to truly cop someone's grooves or licks, because I'm ME, not them. The reason anyone does anything that they're totally amazing at is because it, at first (of course), comes from a place of imitation and studying but ultimately evolves into their own thing. My thing will never be as "good" as Keltner's, Vinnie's, Chambers, etc..., because I'm not them.
However, I hope that my thing is viable, and uniquely, MY thing.

[Ardent15]

Groove and how you (YOU) do it is the same as the way that you speak. I'd like to be able to articulate as well as Hitchens, but that just will not happen. I've recently come to the mindset that I'll never be able to truly cop someone's grooves or licks, because I'm ME, not them. The reason anyone does anything that they're totally amazing at is because it, at first (of course), comes from a place of imitation and studying but ultimately evolves into their own thing. My thing will never be as "good" as Keltner's, Vinnie's, Chambers, etc..., because I'm not them.
However, I hope that my thing is viable, and uniquely, MY thing.

Great points. We should all strive to be the best at our OWN voices, not copping someone else's.

[Josiah]

hhHmm hard to say.

i would say you can't possibly compare chops like Vinnie to Gadd, that's just not right. Or Jeff for that matter. Vinnie is a monster, a monster who eats most any other player.

Gadd doesn't even come close, not even remotely, to guys like Vince. just not even close. the technical playing abilities Vinnie has are so absurd its not funny. not a comparison to Gadd. Gadd laid down some great stuff, but nothing mind boggling or has the WTF factor.

it's hard to say, from who was who, being in the right place and time, the coke and other such elements. Gadd isn't being called for pop sessions today, Vinnie is. Jeff, well RIP, he was a monster.

you look at guys like Gary Chester, the #1 hits alone are staggering. How? Great playing. More #1's then Gadd by a long shot, but the Gadd name is raved.

the WHEN is the key. That time for recording is long long gone. its not like that anymore. at all.

play with emotion, develop your craft.

if you get those big name connections, run with them, everyone does. if not, its about 2 & 4.


see i wouldn't say "Steve owns every note he ever plays" I would just say, hes high a MoFo and is skating on a reputation built from the day. that's why his playing never changes, doesn't evolve and people aren't publishing books of his transcriptions. point in case, a modern Gadd clinic is no different from the stuff he was playing in the 70's, in the rare event he does anything new.

[bananajou]

wow, why so much hate towards gadd? has he done something personal to you? lately you have been bashing the man a lot!