I want certain kinds of protections

[DSOP]

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/01/does_cu ... o_be_free/

The idea that the Internet is somehow immune from law or
regulation or the protection of people’s rights has been seen as a
progressive idea. It’s the “free and open Internet.” But if you really
think about that for a second, that’s not a progressive argument.
It’s a libertarian argument, because the same regulations that
annoy you might be the regulations that protect me.

[circh bustom]

I may have gotten something totally different from this article than you but I keep thinking that maybe now, art, will go back to being art for art's sake. somewhere along the line music, books, paintings etc all became a fiscal commodity. Once that happened people started playing music and such with the idea that there was money to be made, fame to be had, coke to be snorted off hookers stomachs. I hope that with the over saturation of "product" on the internet, and the oversaturtion of availability itself, that true art will be made solely for the enjoyment that it brings, not for the Bentley. I think there was only a very small period of time where those two overlapped. I remember reading stories of how famous musicians got into bands and started bands to get girls and cause it was cool. Or even heaven forbid that playing the instrument could just make them feel good. Now instead of "wow who's on the gig" or "what tunes?" it's " how much does it pay?" or " do i have to schlep my own gear?" That makes me sad.
On the subject of controlling your work, just put it out there. So somebody else puts it all over the internet. whoop-de-doo. Its music. It's sound waves. Everyone hates that music is a business, yet, this kind of "let me be able to make all the money off my song" stuff kicks it right back down. It forces it to stay a business. We arent talking about making a table or a car, we are talking about making music. Some would say that all the music ever, is already there. Some are just luckier than others to find it on the neck of a guitar or keys of a piano before you. It's not like you are creating an H#. You are just taking the twelve tones that are already here and "remixing" them to your liking. Just like the sampling argument on a much more basic level. Even drumming, it's been said by Brian Blade no less, that ALL drumming is a combination of singles, doubles and the control of those two. Let's all get off our high horse and realize what this argument is really about. Bands, artists and record companies are upset that they spent money in a $1000 an hour studio and they feel entitled to large amounts of money for the priviledge of listening. Now with the internet, one person is "buying" a piece, and then sharing it with a billion of their friends. And they can no longer control it. Copyright laws out the ass, and aint a damn thing they can really do about it. Except cry. instead of concebtrating on putting out quality art, they think about how many people arent paying for it. I believe Janek even said on one of these threads recently that artists are only using records as an incentive to come and see them live. Say what? The artist themselves dont even hold their own work in such high regard anymore, but they get their panties in a ruffle when a bunch of people download it? Be happy people want to hear what you have to say!!!! Bask in that enjoyment. Im happy with the internet. It lets me watch and read material from all over the world at any time. It educates me on subjects that would have remained foreign to me without it. Also, if anything I write, record or perform hits the internet, feel free to rip it. Legally, illegally or any combination thereof. id be thrilled that someone in a different time zone, that has never met me, is affected by something I did for fun.

[DSOP]

When Google says newspapers should be free on the Internet,
they may really believe that, but you also have to keep in mind that
it’s a huge help to them. Right? I was on a panel a couple of weeks
ago and this guy from Creative Commons said: “You should concentrate
on art; you shouldn’t worry so much about these contracts.”

That’s exactly what any artist should never do. The record company
guy does not want to make you money; he wants to make him money.
Same with your concert promoter. Same with Google. They are not on
your side. They’re on their side. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, because
Google’s greed and self-interest has led to the creation of a valuable
company, and many jobs, and some really remarkable technology,
but it’s the government’s job to make sure they don’t trample the
rights of other people.

[Joesmechanic]

Well put! =))

[circh bustom]

So take the business model out of it. When money started rolling in to these "artists" thats when the quality and depth of the art started to decline. It's not my fault that these artists decided to choose to risk financial security so that they could try and feed their children with music. The internet is in my opinion a model of what these Wall Street occupiers want. It's a public area where the distribution and availability of art is quick, easy and cheap. Add in the ease of home studios of all types and there you have it. No more relying on a very small group of corporations to distribute and tell you what to like. Its all there. You dont like people getting your music off the internet? Don't record anything. Plain and simple. Or record it and just play it for your friends. The old way of doing it is gone. The art business is evolving, it just may not be evolving in the artists favor in terms of business. But that artist could have a fan 10,000 miles away. Dont be angry that music isnt necessrilly a commodity anymore. Fighting it just makes someone like Lars Ulrich. He was, and probably still is, a bit of a joke over the whole Napster situation. Personally, Im glad the internet is the way it is. Its a tool. Used correctly it is a great source of information. But you cant steer it to where you want. Nor should it be regulated because certain groups are unhappy with the direction its going. Should the "music police" regulate how a guitar company produces guitar because it is unhappy with the way the guitars are being used? Shouls drum co X be shut down because the people who purchase the drums cant play a single stroke roll up to someones standards? I know thats a bit of a stretch, but its the truth. Look at smartphones. I will never buy a stand alone metronome again, as im sure many will agree. Why? cause I have a slammin one on my smartphone. Should we regulate the use of apps to appease Korg? No, thats crazy. People always, historically have had issues with the new, odd, and complex. The internet should stay the way it is.

[DSOP]

Personally, Im glad the internet is the way it is. Its a tool.
Used correctly it is a great source of information. But you cant steer it to where
you want. Nor should it be regulated because certain groups are unhappy with
the direction its going.

technology creates uncertainty and regulation solves uncertainty.
When the car was [created], no one knew how fast you were allowed to drive.
We came up with speed limits and that solved some of the uncertainty –
didn’t solve it perfectly, but it made the roads safer. As copying technology
evolved, we came up with other copyright laws to regulate it.
Media companies thrived. Technology companies thrived.
And despite not liking each other, they thrived together.
A VCR isn’t very valuable if you can’t rent any good movies. Movies aren’t very
valuable if you can’t watch them on a VCR.

[circh bustom]

To stick with the car analogy, 55mph used to be the be all end all speed limit. It got to a point where so many people were breaking the law by speeding and not dying, the speed limits were raised all over the country. Some roads ditched limits all together. Things change and evolve dude. Change is the constant. Not your acceptance, agreement or happiness with the change. All over the world right now people are screaming for a more democratic way of things. When it comes to music and the internet, the people have spoken.

[Old Pit Guy]

I agree with his thesis on copyright law creating and encouraging safe harbor (regulated market) for IP, and that by dismantling those basic protections, the catalyst -- and subsequently the objective quality of content -- whether music, news, etc, inevitably suffers. Probably the most obvious current decline is net news, but it's a two edged sword. On the one hand, we have an astoundingly fast flow of information at our fingertips, but on the other, we have these incredibly short cycles to grab eyes and clicks that are quite shallow. Consequently, there's very little followup or even resolution to a story or issue as the next takes its place in the cycle.

With music, it's harder to define or quantify the degradation. But I think what he's driving at is incentive. People have to make a living at this and/or obtain instruction, etc., and not everyone is inclined, or will be supported or encouraged, to pursue the arts with the vigor and dedication they once did when the odds of a payoff, in terms of even a modest living, are reduced to the point of zero return.

It will be interesting to see how social media, Youtube and .99 cent singles are, short and long term, going to foster any semblance of a market that has depended upon IP, copyright and higher margins from day one.

[Josiah]

To stick with the car analogy, 55mph used to be the be all end all speed limit. It got to a point where so many people were breaking the law by speeding and not dying, the speed limits were raised all over the country. Some roads ditched limits all together. Things change and evolve dude. Change is the constant. Not your acceptance, agreement or happiness with the change. All over the world right now people are screaming for a more democratic way of things. When it comes to music and the internet, the people have spoken.

55 mph speed limit was implemented in order to save gas, it had nothing to do with safety; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law

As to the art and money thing *shrug* the library 4 blocks away has probably a good 10,000+ music CD's you can check out, including ones that are brand new, and is updated daily as albums release. For free of course. They also have movies and get the DVD's the same time they release for sale.

Both college's I went to had massive music libraries, with duplication stations for your freely copy away. They also had CD->Digital duplication systems available. This is still the case today, only the libraries have obviously grown.

And in fact, as alumni, I can at any time go and use the facilities for the rest of my life.

So, completely outside of the internet, I and countless other students had and have continuing free access to remarkable amounts of music. Not only access, but encouraged to copy, take home and devour as much as possible.

The same thing that is sold and bitched about being pirated is freely given away in other venues. Go figure.

[Lucas Ives]

As to the art and money thing *shrug* the library 4 blocks away has probably a good 10,000+ music CD's you can check out, including ones that are brand new, and is updated daily as albums release. For free of course. They also have movies and get the DVD's the same time they release for sale.

I know I've said this to you before, but it bears repeating: as soon as you make a copy of any of this media that persists longer than your borrowing of it, you are going against both the letter and the spirit of a library's charter.

Both college's I went to had massive music libraries, with duplication stations for your freely copy away. They also had CD->Digital duplication systems available. This is still the case today, only the libraries have obviously grown.

And in fact, as alumni, I can at any time go and use the facilities for the rest of my life.

My hunch is any license this college grants for duplication is actually different than how you've interpreted it. If I'm wrong, I'm intrigued and would like to know more -- would you be willing to give the name of the institutions in question? I honestly would be interested in talking to them about how this works.