The age old "chops vs groove" debate

[circh bustom]

If you are on a gig thinking about how much you are holding back, you are on the wrong gig.

[Ardent15]

Bumping this thread (it's MY thread,after all! )

Just listened to Keltner on "Josie" again. That, to me, is one of the greatest, coolest, hippest drum performances ever.

Does Keltner have "chops"? Compared to Vinnie or Weckl or Novak, probably not at all. Who cares, though....

[Clint Hopkins]

Bumping this thread (it's MY thread,after all! )

Just listened to Keltner on "Josie" again. That, to me, is one of the greatest, coolest, hippest drum performances ever.

Allen,
I couldn't agree more. One thing I enjoy about Keltner's playing is that the interplay of hi-hat and ghost notes are nearly inaudible even on that wonderful sounding album.

[Ardent15]

Bumping this thread (it's MY thread,after all! )

Just listened to Keltner on "Josie" again. That, to me, is one of the greatest, coolest, hippest drum performances ever.

Allen,
I couldn't agree more. One thing I enjoy about Keltner's playing is that the interplay of hi-hat and ghost notes are nearly inaudible even on that wonderful sounding album.

Yeah, but you feel that interplay...it really makes a difference in the musicality of the songs.

These days, it seems that a lot of music (especially popular music) is overproduced, loud, and drum-machined. I'd listen to Keltner or Purdie or Rick Marotta for hours. Drum machines can never match them, in my book.

[Rodge]

I know some tracks where machine grooves way more than human, try "The Way" by Meshell on "Peace Beyond Passion".

It would be different with a drummer, but def no better.

[Riddim]

Why chops vs. groove? That obfuscates things - I believe the real issue is musicality vs. its opposite.

Facility can help one be musical, but it's not musicality. That's based on choices we make in response to questions the music presents to us. When we make choices based upon the needs of the music vs. what we've been shedding, then we're in the right ballpark.

[Ardent15]

Why chops vs. groove? That obfuscates things - I believe the real issue is musicality vs. its opposite.

Facility can help one be musical, but it's not musicality. That's based on choices we make in response to questions the music presents to us. When we make choices based upon the needs of the music vs. what we've been shedding, then we're in the right ballpark.

Good points.

[Josiah]

Well Said