Revealing Simultaneous Relationship in Time

[Matthijs Ament]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I

[DeeP_FRieD]

I still don't see why people are still giving Mark shit over this.

Just because something has 2 bars on it doesn't necessarily make it a 16th note in relation to the absolute time signature.

I also am very impressed with how Mark is being so nice by trying to help people get this.

The way I look it it, this kind of thinking in regards to rhythm takes a certain type of intellect... If you don't get it after 4 lengthy explanations, you probably never will, and trying to get this into your playing is a whole different game.

My buddies and I mess around with 5:4 & 4:5 metric modulations a lot. We call it a mulligan, cause we can fix tempos that way. If we rushed something a bit, I would play a bar of 5/4 with 4 notes (16th note groupings of 5) on the kick and bam, 20% reduction in tempo. We also can push the tempo up the reverse way by playing that exact same thing, but the 4 big kicks are the quarter note and you impose hands in 5 on top of it. This is bit harder because you have to futz with the actual subdivided notes ie playing 5's in groupings of 4. Once we played it enough, it kind of developed it's own identity which makes a lot easier to play something, rather than recalculate it all every time. This way pushes the tempo up 25%, so if you were at 120, you would now be at 150.

[Mark Levine]

I still don't see why people are still giving Mark shit over this.

Just because something has 2 bars on it doesn't necessarily make it a 16th note in relation to the absolute time signature.

I also am very impressed with how Mark is being so nice by trying to help people get this.

The way I look it it, this kind of thinking in regards to rhythm takes a certain type of intellect... If you don't get it after 4 lengthy explanations, you probably never will, and trying to get this into your playing is a whole different game.

My buddies and I mess around with 5:4 & 4:5 metric modulations a lot. We call it a mulligan, cause we can fix tempos that way. If we rushed something a bit, I would play a bar of 5/4 with 4 notes (16th note groupings of 5) on the kick and bam, 20% reduction in tempo. We also can push the tempo up the reverse way by playing that exact same thing, but the 4 big kicks are the quarter note and you impose hands in 5 on top of it. This is bit harder because you have to futz with the actual subdivided notes ie playing 5's in groupings of 4. Once we played it enough, it kind of developed it's own identity which makes a lot easier to play something, rather than recalculate it all every time. This way pushes the tempo up 25%, so if you were at 120, you would now be at 150.

Hey DeeP_FRIeD,
Thank you for taking the time to comment. How you adjust tempos with those metric modulations is brilliant.

[chris perra]

I'm not trying to give Mark shit or say he's wasting my time with this stuff.. his polyrhythm ideas are great..
It's just if you are going to notate it and pick a time signature. What's in the time signature should make sense.. Or you wind up confusing people and they dismiss it..

You could have 5/8 and 6/8 happening at the same time.. but that's not what is written there.. you picked a time signature of 6/8
Maybe get rid of the time signature and say they exists at the same time.. And the time signature you pick is up to you and the relationship to the music.. But to tell someone you can fit 5 8th notes in a bar of 6 8 evenly will not make sense. Because they don't. They are larger than and 8th note..
Thus misleading and confusing,..

Love the idea though...

[DSOP]

to tell someone you can fit 5 8th notes in a bar of 6/8 evenly will not make sense. Because they don't.

I disagree. Playing 5 eighth notes in the space of 6 would just be a 5:6 polyrhythm. It's not easy to play it perfectly, but this sort of thing occurs in a lot of contemporary classical music.

[Mark Levine]

I'm not trying to give Mark shit or say he's wasting my time with this stuff.. his polyrhythm ideas are great..
It's just if you are going to notate it and pick a time signature. What's in the time signature should make sense.. Or you wind up confusing people and they dismiss it..

You could have 5/8 and 6/8 happening at the same time.. but that's not what is written there.. you picked a time signature of 6/8
Maybe get rid of the time signature and say they exists at the same time.. And the time signature you pick is up to you and the relationship to the music.. But to tell someone you can fit 5 8th notes in a bar of 6 8 evenly will not make sense. Because they don't. They are larger than and 8th note..
Thus misleading and confusing,..

Love the idea though...

Hey Chris,
The (5) on the top line of that 6/8 meter file, can be thought of as 5th values with an 8th note NOTATION.
Not five 8th notes. Five (5th values) evenly spaced in the time of (6) 8th notes.

[chris perra]

That makes sense...

[Kurtis]

hey Mark and Chris. while your at it transcribe the beginning of this tune. everyone says it's in 7/8. yes every human on the face of the earth says and feels it in 7/8. kind of messed up how extremely easy it is to tap 4 quarter notes and not 7 eighth notes in between each chord the band plays. also easy to feel in 6. maybe it's just me. i need to get with another drummer or a 3 year old and prove me wrong.

not giving up Terry.

[deseipel]

Kurtis: sort of off the topic, but http://www.askgavinharrison.com/transcriptions/15 that's soemthing else, really interesting...

[Henry II]

hey Mark and Chris. while your at it transcribe the beginning of this tune. everyone says it's in 7/8. yes every human on the face of the earth says and feels it in 7/8. kind of messed up how extremely easy it is to tap 4 quarter notes and not 7 eighth notes in between each chord the band plays. also easy to feel in 6. maybe it's just me. i need to get with another drummer or a 3 year old and prove me wrong.

not giving up Terry.

I don't hear where you're getting 7 or 6 from. It's sounds like 4/4.