Postby jem » Wed Aug 06, 2025 4:20 am
Hi Steve, thanks for listening and agree with all your comments too, they are very valid. This is the “base”, to be able to groove alone, and to be able to play to a metronome and records. And what is it that makes certain players, like Gadd feel like “magic”. I think part of the puzzle is sound, consistency, balance and “internal timing” in the kit
(I’ll check out the Pro Drum Shop groove of the day clips, BTW, I live in Stockholm but had the possibility to visit them twice, legendary place)
What I liked about the clinic that I shared was more the discussion about *how different players interact in the time domain*. What he talked about was pretty much confirmation of my own thoughts. (He talked about “internal timing” as well, for example with the high hat-examples).
Here are random comments and food for thought.
I guess the importance of this “timing thing” depends on the kind of music one’s playing. How one relates to each other is more important and obvious in swing and acoustic oriented music, like for example in jazz and folk music.
In jazz music, the bass is often ahead of time, “driving” the pulse. The soloist is often behind, “hanging on the beat”. The drummer, typically the ride cymbal, is “somewhere in the middle”. Who dictates what when there’s no click? Gadd mentions that he tries to lock in with the bass player. The bass player probably locks in with him?
In a context like this I see “time and feel” as a joint responsibility. There’s very seldom a click. Of course anyone can “break the balance”, and in particular musicians with very strong instruments in the time domain, like drummers and keyboards. To me this tension is what makes things swing. All players need to be strong enough to maintain this difference in time, this tension, or the magic is gone, tempos will probably drift etc.
I play with different bass players in situations like this. Some have a very strong sense of time, I can “feel them” and relate to them, I can sometimes follow, and I can push or pull. For example, if I play ahead of time it creates a strong feeling of energy. But if I do the other need to be strong enough to hold back or things will speed up. Some bass players I can’t feel at all, it’s pretty clear that they follow wherever I’m going. I don’t get along very well with such players. They probably prefer me to be just a metronome, so they probably don't like me either. There’s nothing wrong with them, it’s just a personal thing for me. (He talks about this in the clinic as well).
In folk music tempos often flow, like waves. I have to play with everyone else, just as if I’d be for example a violin. The time is defined by us all. But I can also push/pull and create tension against the others. But if I’d play like a metronome I’d immediately get thrown out.
I’ve also played with a professional chamber ensemble. Here it was very clear that the conductor and the orchestra dictate the time. All I can do is relate to it (“push/pull”) in subtile ways not to break things.
I have no problems playing with a metronome but when playing without it, I listen a lot to the music and to other players and follow them probably “too much”. And I have a weakness in that if let’s say a pianist has a tendency to speed up (or maybe his intention just was to create energy?) it’s very easy for me to follow and when I realise what’s happened the tempo has already drifted. So I’m a weak player in this respect. I must somehow learn to know in time when to lead and not follow. And slowing down the tempo is for me very unnatural unless it’s done at appropriate places like between two solos etc., how do you others deal with this?
(I sometimes use livebpm as a “reference”, but funny, if I record myself I can afterwards often hear when I look at the screen, I loose a bit of something, very subtile).
I very seldom play in situations when all players have a click. That’s just due to the nature of the jobs. I wish there would be more occasions like this, I think it would be good for everyone.
I also play in a big band where the brass players have a tendency to sometimes drag in certain passages. I’m thinking about trying to rehearse with them where only I play to a click and they simply have to follow… Does anyone sometimes play in situations where *only* the drummer has a click? I understand that this happens but it’s a bit weird to me, because then the drummer is more like a drum machine?
Many comments, thanks for reading, I’d love to hear your others options and thoughts on this...
/Jan-Erik
)